Shamima Begum refused return to UK

Laughing said:
It was interesting, my security clearance was pretty low, as you can imagine, but when comms are flagged the place becomes a cauldron. I was offered a job when graduating, and at Mi5 too, but their pay scales are awful.
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Annie Machon might be worth a call ;@)) ;) (y)
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Laughing said:
It was interesting, my security clearance was pretty low, as you can imagine, but when comms are flagged the place becomes a cauldron. I was offered a job when graduating, and at Mi5 too, but their pay scales are awful.
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You could have requested MI6 give you a posting in one of the old "colonial outposts" old bean or a "desk" job with "ops";)1614424955174.png
 
r00fie1 said:
Would you expect the [every] Irish citizens of this country to "apologise" for the death of British soldiers in Armagh, or [all] the English apologise to the Irish for the murder of 13 innocent unarmed civilians by British Paratroopers in Derry on "Bloody Sunday"?

Hows about the Prime Minister Tony Bliar - who sanctioned the murder and wounding of unarmed civilians by bombing and invading a Sovereign state, who had never threatened the UK or its "allies"?

The narrative underlying Shamima Begum is typically anti-muslim, racist and anti-democratic: portraying the UK and its imperialist policies as "legitimate" and "justified". Essentially legitimising the UK and its "friends" selling arms to rogue states, whilst demonising those who resist.
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UK and it's imperialist policies

Good grief.

I would expect the Irish government to hand over the those inside their border who are implicated in killing pregnant women in Omagh yes. I would even suggest they have imperialist intent over NI.

But back to this case. I cannot see a single argument why she is not to be tried in London.
 
I have mixed feelings towards this lady and her plight. On the one hand I empathise with her. I feel she is young, was very young when she decided to embark on her gruesome journey, and may have been 'influenced' by others who she saw as role models, and should have known better. If I could feel reassured she would return to this country and start afresh, and make something worthwhile out of her life, I would support this. Having said that she showed not a modicum of remorse when interviewed. Her lack of emotion or shock when discussing beheadings really shocked me. She was devoid of any humanity. I was immature when I was her age but there is a difference between excessive drinking and lecherous behaviours and wanting to sever someones head who disagreed with you.
 
Mountain Climber said:
I have mixed feelings towards this lady and her plight. On the one hand I empathise with her. I feel she is young, was very young when she decided to embark on her gruesome journey, and may have been 'influenced' by others who she saw as role models, and should have known better. If I could feel reassured she would return to this country and start afresh, and make something worthwhile out of her life, I would support this. Having said that she showed not a modicum of remorse when interviewed. Her lack of emotion or shock when discussing beheadings really shocked me. She was devoid of any humanity. I was immature when I was her age but there is a difference between excessive drinking and lecherous behaviours and wanting to sever someones head who disagreed with you.
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One can argue about the leaglities but this sums it up!
 
But the court did hold out the slender hope that Begum could have a final appeal against the decision to revoke her citizenship if she were ever to be in a position where she could properly instruct lawyers. However, her detention in a Syrian camp, where she is not able to communicate with her legal team, makes that unlikely.

The old catch-22
 
My issue with the whole scenario is - I don’t the her age, actions or lack of remorse is the important.

The problem I have with it is I don’t see how we can make her stateless and simply wash our hands of her, and leave another country to deal with her.

On a smaller scale it’s the equivalent of fly-tipping, and not picking your dogs 💩! Simply walking always from a problem that you’re responsible for and allowing others to suffer the consequences and deal with it.

What makes it even worse is the area of the world where we are leaving her have more than enough of their own problems to deal with.

Very poor behaviour on our behalf in my opinion.
 
Mountain Climber said:
I have mixed feelings towards this lady and her plight. On the one hand I empathise with her. I feel she is young, was very young when she decided to embark on her gruesome journey, and may have been 'influenced' by others who she saw as role models, and should have known better. If I could feel reassured she would return to this country and start afresh, and make something worthwhile out of her life, I would support this. Having said that she showed not a modicum of remorse when interviewed. Her lack of emotion or shock when discussing beheadings really shocked me. She was devoid of any humanity. I was immature when I was her age but there is a difference between excessive drinking and lecherous behaviours and wanting to sever someones head who disagreed with you.
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On that interview that was broadcast
.Showing the lack of remorse and disinterest. Someone pointed out that at the time she was still in the camp where there still a lot of Isis supporters and members. They said that every word, gesture and even facial expression would be monitored and reported back on. Perhaps that was the reason for her response?
 
Ziggy said:
On that interview that was broadcast
.Showing the lack of remorse and disinterest. Someone pointed out that at the time she was still in the camp where there still a lot of Isis supporters and members. They said that every word, gesture and even facial expression would be monitored and reported back on. Perhaps that was the reason for her response?
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The look in her eyes....
 
FatCat said:
True I guess we would.
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In which case the Home Secretary's position must be designed to stop the course of justice, deny the ability to try her, and instead politicise her case, that can't be right for someone that was an adult when they committed their crimes, let alone one that was a child.
 
BoroMart said:
In which case the Home Secretary's position must be designed to stop the course of justice, deny the ability to try her, and instead politicise her case, that can't be right for someone that was an adult when they committed their crimes, let alone one that was a child.
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Yes when you put it like that makes sense.
you know bringing her back is probably the right thing to do.

I still would not relish the media storm that bringing her back would create. Sadly some people out there will pay her for her story which grates especially whilst the tax payer will be funding her army of lawyers and security.

it’s a complex case that is certainly dividing opinion.
 
Wiseman_Vaughn said:
One can argue about the leaglities but this sums it up!
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it does, but when they go low, do we go lower, or do we stick by our system of innocent until proven guilty, of human rights, of justice through the courts? Or do we go down the same route of rhetoric, draconianism, avoidance of fair trails etc?
 
BoroMart said:
it does, but when they go low, do we go lower, or do we stick by our system of innocent until proven guilty, of human rights, of justice through the courts? Or do we go down the same route of rhetoric, draconianism, avoidance of fair trails etc?
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I know what you mean but her guilt/innocence isn't in question is it? I mean she isn't denying anything. It is a tough one and I'm really just saying emotionally, this is how people would generally feel about her coming back. I doubt if you would find many that would welcome her back, even to face justice.
 
Wiseman_Vaughn said:
I know what you mean but her guilt/innocence isn't in question is it? I mean she isn't denying anything. It is a tough one and I'm really just saying emotionally, this is how people would generally feel about her coming back. I doubt if you would find many that would welcome her back, even to face justice.
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Over 300 people have returned to the UK from Syria after supporting ISIS.
 
Wiseman_Vaughn said:
I know what you mean but her guilt/innocence isn't in question is it? I mean she isn't denying anything. It is a tough one and I'm really just saying emotionally, this is how people would generally feel about her coming back. I doubt if you would find many that would welcome her back, even to face justice.
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People stand trial every day with a plea of guilty. It's an irrelevance to the course of our justice system. People still have the right even when guilty, to stand and explain how and why, mitigating circumstances, etc. It's a cornerstone of our system, the right to a fair trial.

Also she has killed no one, should we take citizenship from anyone that has threatened to kill people? It's a dangerous route to go down.
 
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