Tories battered

Scrug said:
I will never vote Tory for as long as I live.


I agree it is strange. It’s not a nice feeling to have, usually I have aligned with the views of Labour, not all of them, but most.

I don’t anymore, I don’t know who will get my vote. I’ll decide nearer to the time. This week Labour have been shown up by an RMT Unionist who is asking the questions and making the points Labour should be. Why is Starmer silent?

I don’t see a Labour government under Starmer as much different to this one.
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You keep contradicting yourself. You acknowledge how bad these tories are and then you say that Labour will be the same. Thays simply not true. I. Pretty scared for you if you can't see that.
 
SmallTown said:
You keep contradicting yourself. You acknowledge how bad these tories are and then you say that Labour will be the same. Thays simply not true. I. Pretty scared for you if you can't see that.
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That’s your opinion. I haven’t seen any actions from Starmer that suggest he’s any different to any other career politician. In his most recent speech he left out almost all of the pledges he made that got him elected. He hasn’t challenged the PM when he should have, he’s more than likely broken lockdown rules himself, he’s spent the majority of his time purging the left from the party.

I get what he’s doing, he recognises he has to appeal to the centre to win back the centrists that voted Tory in the last election, but that doesn’t leave any option for the genuine socialists on the left.
 
‘They’re better than the Tories’ is not enough. The problem when you try and have any discussion like this is that people delve into insults like ‘you should have gone to spec savers’ rather than tell me what it is about Labour they like.
 
Scrug said:
I agree it is strange. It’s not a nice feeling to have, usually I have aligned with the views of Labour, not all of them, but most.

I don’t anymore, I don’t know who will get my vote.
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which policies in particular don't you align with?
 
Matters not a jot either way - all you’re voting for at the election is which stick you want to be beaten with, the Tory stick or the Labour stick. Do you really think any of these people running things give a **** about us plebs - we’re just cannon fodder to them
 
Scrug said:
‘They’re better than the Tories’ is not enough. The problem when you try and have any discussion like this is that people delve into insults like ‘you should have gone to spec savers’ rather than tell me what it is about Labour they like.
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In this case it is enough though. They are the most corrupt, incompetent, self serving government of anyone's life time.

But even if you somehow convince yourself "labour would be no better" you surely have to remove this lot from power to send the message that their governance is unacceptable? The longer they stay in the more emboldened they become.

If Starmer's labour get in and break the law repeatedly, lie, cheat and steal from the public (or whatever it is you seem to have convinced yourself they'll be getting up to) you vote to remove them next time too. At least it sends the message: "unacceptable".

At this point anyone refusing to vote to remove these crooks from power is complicit in my opinion. If you can't see them for what they are, you must've been living in a cave.

So spoil your ballot, protest vote for a party who have no chance of beating them or just don't vote at all. But if you do so you're enabling these crooks to continue. At least be honest with yourself that that is what you're doing next time you see the latest scandal, lie or lawbreaking.
 
Scrug said:
That’s your opinion. I haven’t seen any actions from Starmer that suggest he’s any different to any other career politician. In his most recent speech he left out almost all of the pledges he made that got him elected. He hasn’t challenged the PM when he should have, he’s more than likely broken lockdown rules himself, he’s spent the majority of his time purging the left from the party.

I get what he’s doing, he recognises he has to appeal to the centre to win back the centrists that voted Tory in the last election, but that doesn’t leave any option for the genuine socialists on the left.
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You think beergate is on the same level as party gate ?
You think he'd illegally prorogue parliament? You think he'd take control of the electoral commission to further secure his party? You think he'd fail to attend COBR meetings at the start of a major pandemic? You think he'd party with a well known and influential russian and GIVE HIM A PEERAGE. You think he'll lie about employment figures, lie about COVID deaths. You think he would have overseen a government that failed to act on care homes with Covid and ended up killing significant elderly people? You think he'd have pushed bills through parliament to remove our rights to protest? You think he'd send people seeking asylum TO RWANDA? You think he'd be trying to disengage us from the ECHR like Russia did? You think he'd lie about the Northern Ireland protocol? You think he'd hide in a fridge to avoid being interviewed?
Back to beergate do you think he has lied about it in parliament? Do you think, if he gets found guilty, hell refuse to resign, make a big statement saying how sorry he was then practically the next day say he'd do it again?

If you think he'd the same as Johnson then you think all this. I believe you're wrong on this.
 
Funky_Chicken said:
Matters not a jot either way - all you’re voting for at the election is which stick you want to be beaten with, the Tory stick or the Labour stick. Do you really think any of these people running things give a **** about us plebs - we’re just cannon fodder to them
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This "they are all the same" attitude is not only staggeringly false, but it's the main reason we are in this mess. You people are responsible for the decline of this country by letting it happen.
 
SmallTown said:
This "they are all the same" attitude is not only staggeringly false, but it's the main reason we are in this mess. You people are responsible for the decline of this country by letting it happen.
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Bollox - I’ve been a Labour supporter all my life till now. The best thing anyone can do is not vote any of these useless feckers in. There isn’t a single one of them I’d trust
 
Scrug said:
‘They’re better than the Tories’ is not enough. The problem when you try and have any discussion like this is that people delve into insults like ‘you should have gone to spec savers’ rather than tell me what it is about Labour they like.
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Any (former) Labour supporter who has an ounce of pride would be voting this shower of sh@te out, no question. I find it hard to believe you've ever voted Labour in your life and are no doubt one of the shy Tories on here that no matter what Johnson does, you'll vote for him. Alexander de Pfeffel Johnson is toast at the next General Election (if he survives that long by spinning yet more lies), Labour will win.

Read the latest Johnson gaff today? Wants to build a £150000 tree house for his son. Un Fecking Believable. Keep voting for them though eh?


Blockhead
 
I genuinely don't get why people find it sp hard to believe that left wing individuals exist and aren't particularly happy with a choice of centre right, centre right or far right next election... surely this is priced in?
 
Funky_Chicken said:
Bollox - I’ve been a Labour supporter all my life till now. The best thing anyone can do is not vote any of these useless feckers in. There isn’t a single one of them I’d trust
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Thays not how it works. You can do thay if you like. But thay means you get the Tories. It's that simple. You can get on your high horse. You can peptrate the blatant lie that "they are all the same" or you can sit on your hands waiting to the politician who is perfectly what you want. All of these things allow corruption to propagate and will leave us stuck with the tories
 
SuperStu said:
ST back to trolling I see.
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Ah the classic "I disagree with what you say, so I'll insult yiu for saying it" shtick!

So in an attempt to steer you away from petty perosnal remarks and hopefullly get you to discuss the subject: What have I said that is incorrect?
 
SmallTown said:
Ah the classic "I disagree with what you say, so I'll insult yiu for saying it" shtick!
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SmallTown said:
You people are responsible for the decline of this country by letting it happen.
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What a hypocrite you are.

SmallTown said:
So in an attempt to steer you away from petty perosnal remarks and hopefullly get you to discuss the subject: What have I said that is incorrect?
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I find it distasteful in the extreme that Scrug, who's just said he's a lifelong Labour voter, is getting admonishments about this government from someone like yourself, given you voted for this. A bit of contrition once in a while would do you the world of good ST! The reality is people like YOU are the reason we're in this mess. YOU voted to be in this mess.
 
Starmer and Labour cannot keep relying on the Tories shooting themselves in the foot to win an election. They have been equally as bad as the Tories with the regurgitated scripts (scrapping NI, emergency budget). Labour needs BIGGER and BOLDER policies, ones which the Tories won't nick. Free school meals for pupils at state schools, an elected House of Lords, a new help-to-buy scheme, a land value tax.

I have said it on this board before, but I am going to say it again, I am losing faith in the man. There is a lack of passion, urgency and a vision of what he really wants as PM. Labour get my vote regardless of what happens between now and the election, but it is inexcusable Labour aren't enjoying a double digit leader irrespective of their biggest election defeat in decades given what has been going on with the government.

Labour are the only party capable of saving the Union. He needs to frame this for the next election. To ward off the Labour-SNP pact theorists, but also to rewire British politics for the better. Every interview or speech Starmer gives, it comes across he is calculating what is the best things to say rather than what he genuinely believes in. Sorry to bring up the transgender issue, but I don't buy for a second he believes not only women can have a cervix or some women have a penis. I am sure he respects the LGBTQ community and doesn't have a transphobic bone in his body, but this is mud the Tories throw at him and it sticks. He is in desperate need of a better PR team and show some backbone and passion.
 
BoroMart said:
which policies in particular don't you align with?
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During Starmer's leadership the party has been:

Against increasing corporation tax
In favour of spy cops infiltrating trade unions
Against nationalising energy companies
In favour of a lower payrise for nurses than the tories ended up awarding
In favour of the tories outlawing protests
And just this week
Against railworkers exercising their right to go on a strike that has been legitimately voted for by union members.
 
SuperStu said:
What a hypocrite you are.



I find it distasteful in the extreme that Scrug, who's just said he's a lifelong Labour voter, is getting admonishments about this government from someone like yourself, given you voted for this. A bit of contrition once in a while would do you the world of good ST! The reality is people like YOU are the reason we're in this mess. YOU voted to be in this mess.
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To be fair stu this life long labour voter , they are all the same palaver has been done to death and they normally turn out to be shy tories, I don't know if he is ir isn't but I can understand why many are cynical.
They are not all the same, and the difference widens by the day.
I don't see the johnsons,patels, raabs, goves,sunaks and dories on the opposition benches.
I don't see the polices like rwanda and human rights coming from Labour.
I don't see the corruption and sleeze in all parties that I see in the tory party.
It's a cop out
 
Johnson was elected by Brexiteers. They chose Brexit (and Johnson) for deep rooted reasons, many linked to racism. They only need reminding of the same motivation again to vote for Johnson (not the Tories) at the next election which is why many senior Tories want to keep him in charge.
 
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