£27,000 a year?

Why? It is a resource that costs money to provide. If users don't pay for it, that cost will have to come out of another budget.

For some reason there isn't the same handwringing over the NHS workers that have to get the bus or tube to work.
Paying for the bus or train is similar to paying for a car surely

They don't necessarily need to get free parking - a lot of people don't. But they should have adequate parking at a favourable price for sure
 
It's essentially another tax. I would hazard a guess that most graduates these days will never pay back their student loan within the 30 years before it is written off. It is therefore essentially an added tax to their income. A university tax.

Have a play around with different salaries & see who will actually pay off their loan:
 
Only if allowed too the wastage in the NHS is obscene.I speak on this with first hand knowledge as my wife worked in the NHS for 18years and left due to stress. If any NHS workers on here disagree their is way too many mangers without any hands on experience of working with patients. I have a nice that works in the NHS on a band 7 and she has never spoke to a patient never mind helped one.

Come on get real. We've seen it time and time again. Tory privatisation means paying more for a worse service.
 
Going on strike is never the answer
So what is? It's easy to stand on the sideline and carp. Have you a solution? I could equally say giving staff a 1% pay cut every year isn't the answer too. However I have a solution to that problem. You don't you are just whining.
 
So what is? It's easy to stand on the sideline and carp. Have you a solution? I could equally say giving staff a 1% pay cut every year isn't the answer too. However I have a solution to that problem. You don't you are just whining.
Sustained work-to-rule would be better in my opinion. Work contracted hours and not a minute more. Do what is in their job description and nothing more.

It would raise awareness of the shortages and holes within the staffing of the NHS and cause disruption with less danger to life.
 
Sustained work-to-rule would be better in my opinion. Work contracted hours and not a minute more. Do what is in their job description and nothing more.

It would raise awareness of the shortages and holes within the staffing of the NHS and cause disruption with less danger to life.
It's an idea but would make no difference to their pay bg. For 10 years they have taken pay cut after pay cut. The government are systematically underfunding the nhs to get it ready to sell off to their mates. Nurses working to rule would support this agenda.

Make no mistake the tories are reaching their endgame with the nhs. Mp's are now openly suggesting we dump it in parliament. If we don't do something now we will lose it forever and members of this board, our friends and family will be denied medicine and treatment. Those that can't afford it will be left to die. That is the reality of the situation.
 
The well trotted out line that there are too many managers in the NHS is utter nonsense. It was used as justification to cut a load of staff during austerity 1.0 but anyone that has worked in the NHS at a senior level will recognise that the problem is that there are nowhere near enough managers. Managers currently have no time to manage because of all the staff shortages elsewhere. They spend all of their time just trying to fill rota spots and have no time for doing things that a manager should do like assessing performance and increasing efficiency to add value. Clinical staff are great with patients but they need direction and leadership. Same way you wouldn't leave a group of footballers to organise themselves. They might be able to get by sometimes but a manager will have them working more efficiently.

Another thing that happened during austerity 1.0 was that they cut all the admin staff to save money via efficiencies. This means we now have Drs, nurses, therapists etc spending more and more time doing their own admin which means they have less time to spend with patients. It was far more efficient to have a low grade admin staff doing that and letting clinical staff see patients.

This is the problem where people think efficiency means spending less when in reality it is counter-intuitive.

The point about staff never seeing patients is just mental. Why would non-clinical staff see patients? That doesn't make any sense. In any case; as an example of where this isn't 100% true though our Trust had some strikes a few years back and all the domestics and portering work was covered by the non-clinical staff. We had directors and senior finance/HR/IT staff cleaning wards, portering patients etc and during Covid there were many that were re-deployed to ensure the service didn't shut down when it was needed the most.
 
The well trotted out line that there are too many managers in the NHS is utter nonsense. It was used as justification to cut a load of staff during austerity 1.0 but anyone that has worked in the NHS at a senior level will recognise that the problem is that there are nowhere near enough managers. Managers currently have no time to manage because of all the staff shortages elsewhere. They spend all of their time just trying to fill rota spots and have no time for doing things that a manager should do like assessing performance and increasing efficiency to add value. Clinical staff are great with patients but they need direction and leadership. Same way you wouldn't leave a group of footballers to organise themselves. They might be able to get by sometimes but a manager will have them working more efficiently.

Another thing that happened during austerity 1.0 was that they cut all the admin staff to save money via efficiencies. This means we now have Drs, nurses, therapists etc spending more and more time doing their own admin which means they have less time to spend with patients. It was far more efficient to have a low grade admin staff doing that and letting clinical staff see patients.

This is the problem where people think efficiency means spending less when in reality it is counter-intuitive.

The point about staff never seeing patients is just mental. Why would non-clinical staff see patients? That doesn't make any sense. In any case; as an example of where this isn't 100% true though our Trust had some strikes a few years back and all the domestics and portering work was covered by the non-clinical staff. We had directors and senior finance/HR/IT staff cleaning wards, portering patients etc and during Covid there were many that were re-deployed to ensure the service didn't shut down when it was needed the most.
This is kind of what I was getting at.

Hire people who are qualified to add value and improve efficiencies by actually managing staff and departments. That is what you are paying them for, and that is what they're good at. You could pay for a secretary or admin staff to deal with the rotas etc... which may cost more on paper (1 larger salary and 1 lesser salary vs. one larger salary), but if the manager is any good at their job you should start to see the effectiveness improve and therefore more bang for your buck. It feels like/sounds like (anecdotally, I admit) that when management is struggling they hire in more managers to "increase resources", but they aren't always the right resources for the right task.

It's short-termism and any change has to be driven from the top (i.e. government)
 
A NQT in Physics in London has a Starting salary of £31,759 which is 17.6% higher than an entry level nurse, for that you would be contracted to 35 hour a week contract and work 48 weeks of the year, no working on weekends or holidays or unsociable hours and no charge to park in your place of work, your contracted hours work out at £18.90 per hour, you would get an increment of around a £1000 every year on that too.

If a nurse is contracted to the usual 40 hours a week for 47 weeks a year, they would receive an hourly rate of £14.36 per hour or 1/3 less than an NQT on hourly rate.

My wife is an executive head looking after an ever expanding number of schools so I'm very much on the side of educators and education I believe that teachers are overworked, underpaid and undervalued but they are much better off than those who go into nursing, both financially and in terms of life work balance, my wife is out at work 11 hours a day, she then has emails and budgets to sort out when she gets in, she is constantly on call in case she's required for safeguarding or other issues, one of her best friends is a Ward Sister and my Mrs says she can't believe how easy her life is in comparison.
Nurses in London get 20% uplift so starting salary in London is actually £32,246.


Depends where in London what rate you get. See the HCAS sections on the attached.
 
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