Social energy tariffs

If someone can't genuinely afford to cook for their families and heat their homes .I would have no issue in some way profits from the energy companies or taxes going toward helping them.Or a mix of both.

Define "genuinely"? Some play the system but the vast majority don't, however get stigmatised and generalised just the same by people who know nothing of their struggles.
 
You support the idea but only if you don't have to pay more you mean 👍
Did I say that?

I said I would support it if paid through additional taxation. As a high rate tax payer I would expect to pay more tax.

If you think I'd be against this idea you haven't read any of my posts on here.
 
Where does he say that you absolute whopper. He's asking for people's thoughts and says that he thinks general taxation could be something that might work.
Absolute whopper is the perfect way to describe the nob headed one. In fact I think I'll add it to my signature :)
 
Did I say that?

I said I would support it if paid through additional taxation. As a high rate tax payer I would expect to pay more tax.

If you think I'd be against this idea you haven't read any of my posts on here.
High rate tax payer.....!!! 🤣🤣🤣
Jackanory....
 
In what way?
Are you saying there aren't a small majority of feckless work shy people out there living off of benefits who aren't elderly/disabled/medically unable to?

Is there such a thing as a small majority of claimants?

Having worked in Benefits nearly all my life I would say the people to which you describe aren't really employable. They could work but they don't have the work/life/educational skills to hold down a job. Society and the system has let them down.

You might have the people claiming fraudulently who have a decent life but those purely living of £80 a week aren't living it up.
 
Theres an even smaller minority of tax avoiders and evaders, who pay little or no taxes and acrue huge profits from our country and its workforce - like Amazon. They are the real scroungers and fraudsters. Thats where our money is.
 
I won’t qualify but cannot afford my Tariffs to be any higher. What do I do as a single income divorced bloke who qualifies for zero support for anything?

I am literally worth more dead than I am living. I cannot continue to be squeezed.
Same here , single parent ,single income , never had any help in the 15 years my boy has been alive .
 
Define "genuinely"? Some play the system but the vast majority don't, however get stigmatised and generalised just the same by people who know nothing of their struggles.
Why do I need to define genuine to you.
I said I would support a system not set it up .
 
Ah spelling sorry. Minority.

Also why is society and the 'system' always to blame? When do this minority of people start looking at themselves as the problem?

Thought you meant that!

When you speak to these people (to which you refer) on a one to one basis over a period of time you find out why they are like they are. And they have been let down, badly. They don't want to be living in poverty. They don't want to have to claim benefits. They want nice things for their kids. They just have no opportunity to make their lives better.

Back in the day, 2-3 generations ago, people were just cast aside. Mentally ill people were just locked up - no help. People with learning difficulties branded as thick. Things are much better now but you just look on the news to see things are still bad. How can a child expect to thrive at school when their house is riddled with mould and freezing cold. When they can't get the proper food because it is too expensive etc...

It is too easy to blame the individuals and when we blame them society on the whole feels no guilt. In reality if we had the will we could help these people, but there is no will. I was of the same opinion as you Randy until I worked with these people for 20 years. It's sadly not as black and white as you think.
 
Theres an even smaller minority of tax avoiders and evaders, who pay little or no taxes and acrue huge profits from our country and its workforce - like Amazon. They are the real scroungers and fraudsters. Thats where our money is.

Interesting stat on GMB yesterday morning - there is something like 20x the amount of tax avoiders than there is fraudulent benefit claims but you are more likely to be locked up for benefit fraud that tax fraud. See Nadhim Zahawi.
 
"jack up the rate as consumption goes up. First 10kW might be 25p, but the next 10kW is 30p etc, "

This is available with smart meters. its called a block tariff,
I've never seen a tariff incentivising less use (will look into it), but have seen a few timed tariffs. The less use tarriff should be mandated, not a choice though, as a high user is never going to choose it.

I know the timed tariffs are not incentivised enough, as the energy suppliers are split, so trying to get one over on each other. There needs to be some cohesion/ regulation, so that they're working to make things better for their customers, but also for the grid, which ends up better for the customers/ grid/ suppliers also.

Loads of the timed tariffs and overnight EV charging tariffs were pulled when the prices started going up, where as they could have been index lined or whatever. I've been waiting for this tariff for about a year, it was announced and then "not available" https://www.eonnext.com/tariffs/next-drive

Loads of the tariffs where they give you cheaper energy overnight, they jack up the cost of the rate so much during the day that it's no longer an incentive. Some use you can't move from during the day, especially if you work from home or have kids etc.

It just needs more cohesion, and to be better regulated, with the grid and end users interests at heart. I'm not saying the suppliers are the ones at fault, as they're not the ones making a fortune in the energy mess, that;s the producers. Also a notoriously rough industry for suppliers where loads go bust, and they have to protect themselves. If they were better supported or guaranteed by the government then we would have less of a problem. This is one of the areas where nationalisation could work, albeit whether that's cost-effective compared to the nationalisation of energy production (or any new energy production) is a different matter.
 
I've never seen a tariff incentivising less use (will look into it), but have seen a few timed tariffs. The less use tarriff should be mandated, not a choice though, as a high user is never going to choose it.

I know the timed tariffs are not incentivised enough, as the energy suppliers are split, so trying to get one over on each other. There needs to be some cohesion/ regulation, so that they're working to make things better for their customers, but also for the grid, which ends up better for the customers/ grid/ suppliers also.

Loads of the timed tariffs and overnight EV charging tariffs were pulled when the prices started going up, where as they could have been index lined or whatever. I've been waiting for this tariff for about a year, it was announced and then "not available" https://www.eonnext.com/tariffs/next-drive

Loads of the tariffs where they give you cheaper energy overnight, they jack up the cost of the rate so much during the day that it's no longer an incentive. Some use you can't move from during the day, especially if you work from home or have kids etc.

It just needs more cohesion, and to be better regulated, with the grid and end users interests at heart. I'm not saying the suppliers are the ones at fault, as they're not the ones making a fortune in the energy mess, that;s the producers. Also a notoriously rough industry for suppliers where loads go bust, and they have to protect themselves. If they were better supported or guaranteed by the government then we would have less of a problem. This is one of the areas where nationalisation could work, albeit whether that's cost-effective compared to the nationalisation of energy production (or any new energy production) is a different matter.
Octopus does an EV tariff for overnight cheaper electricity which, if you can change your behaviour significantly, can save you a lot of money but means timing dishwasher, washing machine, ev charging etc into that period. Obviously it's only available to ev users but you'd think there would be a market to offer these tariffs a bit like economy 7 was but economy7 is getting more expensive, not less.

We already time our dishwasher and washer so they finish in the morning as we get up which takes some use out of peak times . Some use you can't shift but helping load balance would probably help
 
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I too am a fan of a universal basic income model. It could do wonders for this country and it's people. It's how we fund it though I'm not clear on.
Going back to the pandemic days when their were rumors of a £500 payment for every citizen in the country to get money moving around the economy again I was well in favour of that and I still am. That would be a great experiment to try and see the results. It doesn't matter if Jeff over the road spends it on fags and booze or Linda down the street buys a beach towel and a holiday. Money will be moving which can only be a good thing?
I think in Finland they have a basic living wage, as people have what they need then there is less crime, better health. This actually means less money on public services such as police and health.
 
Octopus does an EV tariff for overnight cheaper electricity which, if you can change your behaviour significantly, can save you a lot of money but means timing dishwasher, washing machine, ev charging etc into that period. Obviously it's only available to ev users but you'd think there would be a market to offer these tariffs a bit like economy 7 was but economy7 is getting more expensive, not less.

We already time our dishwasher and washer so they finish in the morning as we get up which takes some use out of peak times . Some use you can't shift but helping load balance would probably help
Yeah I looked at that about a year back I think, and even if I charged the EV and did the washing/ dishwashing at night etc, then it would have been barely and cheaper as I WFH, and still have to charge during the day if I have two meetings, so what I could have helped the grid with (putting load at night) they then effectively penalised me for still working/ cooking etc during the day. Octopus will make big money from these overnight tariffs, where people aren't saving a great deal (or anything) as energy is so much cheaper to them on a night, and it's nowhere near what they charge during the day. Not saying Octupus are one of the bad guys like, far from it, at least they're trying, sort of.

I've got solar too, but no battery so there's zero incentive for me to get one of the current night tariffs as it just then means I'm putting excess solar back into the grid for a pittance, especially in summer. Energy should be a one for one swap, you give us a kWh when you can, and you get one back FOC (maybe at night).

I suppose they could analyse your use, and then offer something tailored to save you money, and then save them hammering the grid at the worst time.

Obv I appreciate my circumstance is probably not all that common now, but it's certainly going to be, to more and more every year, with EV's and WFH ramping up. This will all get solved when we have more wind/ renewables mind, and some method of storing it.

Seems like all the talk about energy storage is now moving away from what is being developed now (for the future), as by the time it comes in, and gets built it will be too late anyway. Too much funding is going into tech which is over a decade away, it needs to shift to what we can use now. Using people's EV's to balance load, even if it's just their own home/ load could be massive, and plenty will have EV's in no time. They can already do pumped hydro, compressed air, put energy into weights and flywheels, generate hydrogen, thermal storage etc, they need to do it and get it built now, as not taking advantage of free wind and sun is wasting money and obv causing climate issues. Also read something like if we moved to just using wind power and EV's and recycling them, the mining would be about 1% the CO2 of what we're putting out mining/ drilling for fossil fuels, and then moving them around and burning them etc. Inevitably we're running out of them anyway, or they become more and more controlled by clowns, so the sooner we get off them the better.
 
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