Tesla drivers…

All I'm saying is the "problems" with EV's don't actually need to be problems at all, but you do need to adjust slightly
exactly, some new technology is about doing things exactly the some but better/cheaper, some requires a change to ways of working to get the benefits.


You're not filling up before you go (need the initial fuel), and topping up on the way back or a few days later in 5 minutes total, you're burning 20 minutes there at least. Sure this may not seem an inconvenience and may seem unnoticeable at the time
For most people, that's the norm, you only notice the wastage when you create a new norm and witness how you used to behave

Overall, for most it will work out fairly even I expect, ICE or EV, in time wasted. I just think the EV gets noticed more as it's new, and people don't have the experience to make it much less of an issue.
80-20 rule, For 80% of people it's of benefit, even if they don't want to accept it due to fear of change and prejudices (we all have them). For 20% of people it will be a negative experience because their driving schedules aren't met, such as long distance drivers.
 
You're correct. There isn't a thing as range anxiety but there is a worry at the moment that you won't get to a working charger. That'll have to be addressed as I see it as a barrier to EV take up. Probably the only one as other perceived issues haven't actually materialised.
Range anxiety does exist.
i.e.
People are worried that an electric car won't have enough power to reach their destination.
Whether this anxiety is justified is a different question, but there is anxiety.
 
Range anxiety does exist.
i.e.
People are worried that an electric car won't have enough power to reach their destination.
Whether this anxiety is justified is a different question, but there is anxiety.
Yeah that's my point. It's a completely invented construct. You are anxious because you are told to be anxious. If you think about it logically it makes no sense. For years, before trip computers had range in them, we literally judged how much fuel we had with a tiny needle. Yet range anxiety was never mentioned. Now we are told, down to the nearest battery percentage, exactly how much charge we will have at our destination and some people still get anxious.

So yes, it DOES exist. but only because we have been conditioned to think we are anxious. A few months into driving an EV you realise it isn't a thing. Just as it wasn't a thing in your previous car
 
If you think about it logically it makes no sense.
I think it's more we are anxious because the operating model for a car has changed, we are not used to it, people fear change naturally. On top of that, yes, there has certainly been a right wing exercise to exaggerate and perpetuate that anxiety way above the reality of a rational fear.
 
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Yeah that's my point. It's a completely invented construct. You are anxious because you are told to be anxious. If you think about it logically it makes no sense. For years, before trip computers had range in them, we literally judged how much fuel we had with a tiny needle. Yet range anxiety was never mentioned. Now we are tolde, down to the nearest battery percentage, exactly how much charge we will have at our destination and some people still get anxious.

So yes, it DOES exist. but only because we have been conditioned to think we are anxious. A few months into driving an EV you realise it isn't a thing. Just as it wasn't a thing in your previous car
I think 'anxiety' is too strong a term, but there is a certain amount of unease when planning a long journey. I'm currently test driving a few EV's, but likely to go with the XC40 Recharge. We still have numerous friends dahn Sarf, so when the new motor turns up (probably 2024!) it will require a little bit of planning with no certainty that we will find a free charger; a situation that would not occur if I opted for the ICE version.
However, the TCO (solar panels and home charging), along with the environmental benefits, make a compelling argument.
 
Uncertainty makes people anxious. In an ICE you can be certain that you will be able to fill your car up and it won't add any significant time to your journey (except for that one week last year with the panic buying). With an EV you can't be certain you will find a charger where you want one to be. I travel to my sister's which is just over 200 miles away. I can't charge at their house and we often go out for the day while we are there which means I have to stop for a significant amount of time on the way down so I have enough for the weekend and to get me back to a charger on the way back to get another full charge on the return. We have young kids so we travel on a Friday night after work so an extra stop for an hour is a massive inconvenience. Pulling in somewhere to stop for food (which we never used to do pre-EV) only to find that there are no chargers is a pain in the ****. Because we need to charge near our destination means stopping to eat at 9pm instead of the time you would actually want to stop to eat or two stops.

All these things cause anxiety. You can call it range anxiety or not but that is irrelevant. Owning an EV can be incredibly inconvenient and being a Tesla driver with the supercharger network and no kids means you aren't representative of all EV drivers so stop telling people that it's all sunshine and rainbows. EVs can be great and massive pains in the ****.
 
Uncertainty makes people anxious. In an ICE you can be certain that you will be able to fill your car up and it won't add any significant time to your journey (except for that one week last year with the panic buying). With an EV you can't be certain you will find a charger where you want one to be. I travel to my sister's which is just over 200 miles away. I can't charge at their house and we often go out for the day while we are there which means I have to stop for a significant amount of time on the way down so I have enough for the weekend and to get me back to a charger on the way back to get another full charge on the return. We have young kids so we travel on a Friday night after work so an extra stop for an hour is a massive inconvenience. Pulling in somewhere to stop for food (which we never used to do pre-EV) only to find that there are no chargers is a pain in the ****. Because we need to charge near our destination means stopping to eat at 9pm instead of the time you would actually want to stop to eat or two stops.

All these things cause anxiety. You can call it range anxiety or not but that is irrelevant. Owning an EV can be incredibly inconvenient and being a Tesla driver with the supercharger network and no kids means you aren't representative of all EV drivers so stop telling people that it's all sunshine and rainbows. EVs can be great and massive pains in the ****.
You once told Boromart to stop exaggerating about how long it takes to fill up with petrol. Then you use a statement like "owning an EV can be incredibly inconvenient" When you know for a fact this is incorrect. I admit if you are going somewhere unknown you have to take 5 minutes to check zap map or do a little route planning. But if you are doing a regular journey you know exactly your range and where to refuel, exactly the same as an ICE car. Also as I mentioned above. The bit you KNOW but are ignoring and the anti EV brigade won't acknowledge is that if you are average, average journey, average living situation, owning an EV is more convenient than and ICE
 
You once told Boromart to stop exaggerating about how long it takes to fill up with petrol. Then you use a statement like "owning an EV can be incredibly inconvenient" When you know for a fact this is incorrect. I admit if you are going somewhere unknown you have to take 5 minutes to check zap map or do a little route planning. But if you are doing a regular journey you know exactly your range and where to refuel, exactly the same as an ICE car. Also as I mentioned above. The bit you KNOW but are ignoring and the anti EV brigade won't acknowledge is that if you are average, average journey, average living situation, owning an EV is more convenient than and ICE
Nothing about that statement is false. Owning an EV can be incredibly inconvenient. I didn't say it is always inconvenient. I said there are certain things you do, and then gave a real world example, that are less convenient to do in an EV than in an ICE car. Why are you only focusing on that part of my post and not the positives I've mentioned? As I said at the very end they can be great but they are also a massive pain in the **** at times. They aren't faultless. It's not EVs fault themselves, the demands of the infrastructure massively outstrip the supply (unless you own a Tesla). I don't think you understand how big a difference there is between having the supercharger network and not or making a long distance journey that is unfamiliar to you so you don't know where the good stopping places are.

Averages mean nothing because it is the extremes where issues occur. I fully agree, as I've previously mentioned, that day to day and for the majority of journeys an EV is more convenient than an ICE. The 5 minutes to plan (realistically longer if it is a very unfamiliar route) isn't a big issue but the issue is the fact that you can add an additional 20-50% of your journey time for charging if you are going to do a drive up to the range your EV does. That 200 mile each way journey that we do regularly is 7hrs on the road or 8hrs total if we do a 30 min stop on each leg which we usually wouldn't because the kids are asleep in the car. It now takes us 7hrs total driving plus a definite 45 min each way (if there are no queues for the charger and it still needs another top up either over the weekend or on the way back because you don't do a 0%-100% charge at a motorway service station due to the charging curve. IF we can get to 100% over the weekend we don't need to stop on the way back but we've not managed that yet, best was 80% which only needed a 20 min stop. That's a lot of extra time and hassle on top of what is already a lot of driving over a weekend.

Like I also said. It's not enough of an inconvenience that I wouldn't want to own an EV
 
Nothing about that statement is false. Owning an EV can be incredibly inconvenient. I didn't say it is always inconvenient. I said there are certain things you do, and then gave a real world example, that are less convenient to do in an EV than in an ICE car. Why are you only focusing on that part of my post and not the positives I've mentioned? As I said at the very end they can be great but they are also a massive pain in the **** at times. They aren't faultless. It's not EVs fault themselves, the demands of the infrastructure massively outstrip the supply (unless you own a Tesla). I don't think you understand how big a difference there is between having the supercharger network and not or making a long distance journey that is unfamiliar to you so you don't know where the good stopping places are.

Averages mean nothing because it is the extremes where issues occur. I fully agree, as I've previously mentioned, that day to day and for the majority of journeys an EV is more convenient than an ICE. The 5 minutes to plan (realistically longer if it is a very unfamiliar route) isn't a big issue but the issue is the fact that you can add an additional 20-50% of your journey time for charging if you are going to do a drive up to the range your EV does. That 200 mile each way journey that we do regularly is 7hrs on the road or 8hrs total if we do a 30 min stop on each leg which we usually wouldn't because the kids are asleep in the car. It now takes us 7hrs total driving plus a definite 45 min each way (if there are no queues for the charger and it still needs another top up either over the weekend or on the way back because you don't do a 0%-100% charge at a motorway service station due to the charging curve. IF we can get to 100% over the weekend we don't need to stop on the way back but we've not managed that yet, best was 80% which only needed a 20 min stop. That's a lot of extra time and hassle on top of what is already a lot of driving over a weekend.

Like I also said. It's not enough of an inconvenience that I wouldn't want to own an EV
Averages mean everything. Otherwise you're relating bad information like "they can be inconvenient" and ignoring that for 98% of the population they are the exact opposite. So yes. Averages count
 
With an EV you can't be certain you will find a charger where you want one to be. I travel to my sister's which is just over 200 miles away.
I've had mine 2 years and never had a problem finding a charger. C'est la vie
Averages mean nothing because it is the extremes where issues occur.
extremes like having a petrol crisis for example. Extremes are important at extremely infrequent intervals.
The 5 minutes to plan (realistically longer if it is a very unfamiliar route) isn't a big issue
It's no issue if it's less than the range of the car. If it's an unfamiliar route and greater than the range of your EV then you probably need to plan for your journey in an ICE too, maybe go get petrol before setting off. Like you concede, for most journeys it just isn't an issue, mountains and molehills spring to mind.

If anyone asks me about range anxiety, the answer is home charging and a decent charging network negates this
 
Not read all the replies here but what does ICE stand for 🤷🏼‍♂️ always thought it was ’in car entertainment… ’
It does. But it's been hijacked to mean internal combustion engine for reasons unknown to man and woman. 😂

The one thing I hate about modern cars, petrol, diesel, electric, hydrogen and pixie dust, is the inability to swap out the ICE system for an aftermarket one without hacking your dashboard to pieces.

As for people getting their wabs in a twist over a 5 minute detour to a petrol station rather than charging at home who in the real world lives their lives like that? Minute to minute? Blimey.
 
Uncertainty makes people anxious. In an ICE you can be certain that you will be able to fill your car up and it won't add any significant time to your journey (except for that one week last year with the panic buying). With an EV you can't be certain you will find a charger where you want one to be. I travel to my sister's which is just over 200 miles away. I can't charge at their house and we often go out for the day while we are there which means I have to stop for a significant amount of time on the way down so I have enough for the weekend and to get me back to a charger on the way back to get another full charge on the return. We have young kids so we travel on a Friday night after work so an extra stop for an hour is a massive inconvenience. Pulling in somewhere to stop for food (which we never used to do pre-EV) only to find that there are no chargers is a pain in the ****. Because we need to charge near our destination means stopping to eat at 9pm instead of the time you would actually want to stop to eat or two stops.

All these things cause anxiety. You can call it range anxiety or not but that is irrelevant. Owning an EV can be incredibly inconvenient and being a Tesla driver with the supercharger network and no kids means you aren't representative of all EV drivers so stop telling people that it's all sunshine and rainbows. EVs can be great and massive pains in the ****.
Lack of understanding and fearmongering makes people anxious too.

We've had a fuel shortage a few times, or panic buying in the last few years haven't we? Don't want to fearmonger, but these may become more common too, as we demand less fuel and as the supply of it is reliant on morons.

If I'm going to an area where there's a lack of charger choice on route, or nothing at the destination I would just stop sooner, but for much less time and rely on zap map. I've had zero instances where a charger broke, or wasn't avialible when I got there and there wasn't a free alternative. Like I say though, I like most don't need to rely on public chargers much, and the plug at home is more relaible than any car fuel source.

Your example is a bit of a one-off/ extreme though isn't it? How many people do this/ how many times a year? A drive 200 miles/ 4 hours with kids seemingly where you don't want to stop, and then having to drive again all weekend, when you get there, to places wiht no chargers seems a bit rough on you all to be fair, you especially. That 200 miles is on the verge of where most would try and push through without stopping though, which is what I used to do, and get stressed. Now I would just stop at 150 and top up to 80% in half an hour, and do the same on the way back. I'd stop on the way down in an ICE now too. Funny thing is I do similar EV trips to the southwest, 300 miles, but because it's a longer drive, the stop is expected anyway. Still only works out 1.5 hrs total charging/ stops mind. Seems like we're visiting there often (missus parents), but it's actually only a few times a year. This ends up being 90% of my total EV public charger use.

I don't drive a Tesla, but I've had a 200 range car and now a 250, both using CCS and never used a Tesla supercharger, I don't see what the problem is in the UK.

There are still plenty of 100kW+ chargers, image bleow, and three times as many more 50-100 and most cars wouldn't be drawing more than 75-100 for much time anyway, the 50-100 chargers aren't much worse in reality, and often suit where you want to stop better.
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Sure there are some rare 3-4/10 inconveniences (or rethinking) with an EV, but for most there a hell of a lot more 1-2/10 ICE inconveniences, which add up to a hell of a lot more, and that's only fuelling. Not all ICE's have 500 mile tanks either, most cars are closer to 300.

Again though, only basing this on 200+ range cars, home charging and ~12k miles a year, but that covers most people in the market for newer cars I expect.
 
The one thing I hate about modern cars, petrol, diesel, electric, hydrogen and pixie dust, is the inability to swap out the ICE system for an aftermarket one without hacking your dashboard to pieces.
That's done my head in for years too, the tech in cars is so far behind where it could and should be, it's a joke. They trickle it out to take advantage of the customer, paying for sub par tech which is 5-10 years old on new cars. There should be some forced commonality on swapping out the dash, head unit and speakers etc. My 8 year old backup iPad runs better than the ICE on any car I've ever been in, and I've had a few upmarket cars.

It's mad that a few crappy Bose speakers in a car can be a grand upgrade! On my previous merc it had burmester speakers in it, which were a 4.5k upgrade for some other cars! They came with my car anyway, and were ok, but nowhere near as good as a £500 home theatre system. It's all a con. The car I've got now is one of the best EV's you can get, yet the speakers are about the same level as my £20 PC speakers, I laugh at how ridiculous it is.
 
As for people getting their wabs in a twist over a 5 minute detour to a petrol station rather than charging at home who in the real world lives their lives like that? Minute to minute? Blimey.
nobody is, they're simply putting the other side to teh earlier argument by people getting their wobs in a twist over needing to stop an extra 10 mins when you go for a pee at a motorway services. Who lives like that blimey
 
nobody is, they're simply putting the other side to teh earlier argument by people getting their wobs in a twist over needing to stop an extra 10 mins when you go for a pee at a motorway services. Who lives like that blimey
I wouldn't. I'd hire a diesel if I was driving from one end of the country to another. 🫡
Done it before a couple of times and will more than likely do it again even with my new car. Have never wanted to put the miles on my own when it's fairly cheap considering to hire someone elses car and put in the miles on that without having to worry about breakdowns (replacement car sent), tax, insurance etc.
 
I've had mine 2 years and never had a problem finding a charger. C'est la vie

extremes like having a petrol crisis for example. Extremes are important at extremely infrequent intervals.

It's no issue if it's less than the range of the car. If it's an unfamiliar route and greater than the range of your EV then you probably need to plan for your journey in an ICE too, maybe go get petrol before setting off. Like you concede, for most journeys it just isn't an issue, mountains and molehills spring to mind.

If anyone asks me about range anxiety, the answer is home charging and a decent charging network negates this
Extreme as in the extremity of the range or the furthest you'll travel, not extreme as in once in a decade petrol shortage.

The reason why averages aren't important is because everything is fine at the average. On a 20 mile drive you probably don't need to charge or put petrol in so it's irrelevant. Not considering the times you have to drive 200+ is just ignorant.

It's no issue if it's less than the range of the car.

This is the point. Many people do journeys that are greater than the range of the car. 200 mile return is really not very far. I do that 200 mile each way 10x a year maybe (not to the same place, the wife's family are spread out 150-200 miles south of us). I don't think it's unusual to do that sort of journey regularly. Sometimes the journey is fine. Sometimes I can charge at someone's house but that needs 36 hours via 3 pin and it's a bit cheeky with energy prices so high but it is an option where they have a drive and we're staying long enough.

I went to Cornwall where they didn't have working chargers in entire towns. None of the touristy spots we went to had them. We had to plan entire days out around finding a charger and it meant missing places we wanted to go to.

All I'm doing is giving a balanced view of owning an EV because the EVangelists are acting like they are some magical vehicles . They are great, majority of time trouble free and occasionally a pain in the ****.
 
As for people getting their wabs in a twist over a 5 minute detour to a petrol station rather than charging at home who in the real world lives their lives like that? Minute to minute? Blimey.
I don't know whether you deliberately always miss the point to be contrary or you genuinely never get it but you've missed the point again.

The ICE brigade will (when they aren't saying something about lithium) always wang on about charging times. My point is that for the average person we waste less time refuelling an EV than an ICE.

Plus, many times have you refuelled in your life? That's A LOT of five minuteses
 
I wouldn't. I'd hire a diesel if I was driving from one end of the country to another. 🫡
Done it before a couple of times and will more than likely do it again even with my new car. Have never wanted to put the miles on my own when it's fairly cheap considering to hire someone elses car and put in the miles on that without having to worry about breakdowns (replacement car sent), tax, insurance etc.
putting miles on an EV isn't such a devaluing thing to do, no moving parts see.
 
The reason why averages aren't important is because everything is fine at the average. On a 20 mile drive you probably don't need to charge or put petrol in so it's irrelevant. Not considering the times you have to drive 200+ is just ignorant.
I drive 200 plus from kent to Durham 3 or 4 times a year, it really isn't a hassle, I stop at Grantham, get a bite to eat, have a pee and 5 mins after that I'm fully charged and ready to go. I'd love someone to explain how that's a pain. I usually stop for a coffee at Scotch Corner and top up for the weekend, then stop at Grantham on the way home. No one is ignoring the 200 mile trip, its been addressed multiple times. People having had different experiences to you doesn't make them ignorant, does it.

When I used to drive my old car, I'd stop at Grantham for food and pee, stop somewhere over the weekend to top up with fuel for the journey home and stop at Grantham on the way back.

It's like-for-like. The big difference is the daily use, I don't ever go for petrol, I used to every 2 or so.
 
putting miles on an EV isn't such a devaluing thing to do, no moving parts see.
The battery life does depreciate though… doesn’t it?

don’t shoot me down though.. I’ve got one, I enjoy it but I do see why others a sceptical about them or even don’t like them…

each to their own, it’s difficult to get everyone to agree a point so sometimes just best agreeing to disagree, even if they’re wrong in their view…
 
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