Tomahawk - to avoid after lockdown

They said what was reported in the BBC is a lie, and there's been plenty of staff backing this up.

I'm just saying it's probably not as clear as everyone thinks it is (business never is), and everyone loves to shoot down a business owner with 5% of the info.
No they didn't if the quote you put up is correct. Is there a link where they say the BBC were lying?
 
How the hell would you know? You don't know how these we're financed, leased or agreed.
How much would "takeaway" trade cover for massive restaurants, in expensive areas? It's probably less than 20% of typical takings, yet would still incur the vast majority of outgoings, it would literally bleed to death.

There's a reason there's not 200 seater "take-aways", as it just won't work for a duration. The length of that duration is likely set by funds reserves and what finance can be established, which for a 3-year company is not going to be a lot.

You're making wild conclusions based on about 2% of the information, the people with all the information seem to be quite concerned.

Have you ever owned and run a business? If so, anywhere near this level?
Do you? If we have to go on your business model of not making any money for 5 or even 10 years I might as well have a job.
You’re missing the point, it’s not the minutiae of what costs a takeaway etc will cover it’s the fact that in the uncertainty of a pandemic that you keep alluding to WHY would you open the other restaurants we’ve talked about with the expense incurred in that when you have no idea if or when the ones you already own might open again.
To compound it you then ask your staff for a loan!
 
It's strange that the poorest paid, being paid less and then asked to pay some of that isn't regarded with absolute disgust.
It's strange that some want to see these poorest paid more likely ending up on the dole.

They're not being paid less, they have been told they would get it back. The chances are they will much much better financially doing the loan, than otherwise, 6 months down the line.

Look at the bigger picture.
 
And there is your catch all "the end justifies the means" rationale.

Even if you have altruistic intentions, you can't just break the law with impunity. Unfortunately though we live in a world where for some, anything goes as long as you can justify it to yourself.
I don't think they're breaking the law.

But if this is a law, and ends up leading to 500 lost jobs, is that better?
 
No they didn't if the quote you put up is correct. Is there a link where they say the BBC were lying?
BBC: Tomahawk Steakhouse staff told 'loan firm 10% or they could face sack'

Tomohawk: At no point has Tomahawk Steakhouse ever suggested that members of staff would be sacked if they did not sign a loan agreement.
This is from their Facebook, can't paste the link or it probably won't work, easy to find though
 
In the Gazette now - comments turned off of course, like most posters I'm appalled that anybody can defend the actions of this company.

@Andy_W is an investor with Tomahawk and I claim my £5. Nobody can defend them that much that if they don't have a stake in the buisness. 😂

Also I personally know two people who work at two different Tomahawk establishments who back up the news reports.
 
BBC: Tomahawk Steakhouse staff told 'loan firm 10% or they could face sack'

Tomohawk: At no point has Tomahawk Steakhouse ever suggested that members of staff would be sacked if they did not sign a loan agreement.
This is from their Facebook, can't paste the link or it probably won't work, easy to find though
So they had a chance to refute what was said in the BBC report and didn't.

suitability for the role will have to be reviewed
 
@Andy_W is an investor with Tomahawk and I claim my £5. Nobody can defend them that much that if they don't have a stake in the buisness. 😂

Also I personally know two people who work at two different Tomahawk establishments who back up the news reports.
That’s what I thought myself as he’s at pains to point out we all know fcuk all about it with only 2% of the information but so c**k sure he’s right with the same 2%.🤔
 
Do you? If we have to go on your business model of not making any money for 5 or even 10 years I might as well have a job.
You’re missing the point, it’s not the minutiae of what costs a takeaway etc will cover it’s the fact that in the uncertainty of a pandemic that you keep alluding to WHY would you open the other restaurants we’ve talked about with the expense incurred in that when you have no idea if or when the ones you already own might open again.
To compound it you then ask your staff for a loan!
No, but I'm not claiming I know the ins and out of their business. I'm saying they might be in deep $hit, and probably are.

It's not my business model, it's just the way it is for most businesses, must are in a massive hole for the first few years at least. Tesla didn't make a profit for about 15 years, maybe go tell Elon Musk he has no idea what he's on about.

Amazon didn't make a profit for about 5 years, Jeff Bezos must be clueless too huh.

You don't know how the others were funded, or when the leases were agreed or anything was signed. Could have been done a year ago. They might have just made a massive mistake and this might now be the only way out. People make mistakes, but this 10% loan and expansion might mean there's 500 employed rather than 250. They will probably all get their money back.

What about the staff that work for these new expanded businesses, it's these staff that are also being asked for loans!

It might not sit right with people, it doesn't sit right with me, but as far as the staff go it's probably the best investment they could make right now. It's a $hit situation, that's what happens in a pandemic.
 
@Andy_W is an investor with Tomahawk and I claim my £5. Nobody can defend them that much that if they don't have a stake in the buisness. 😂
I wouldn't invest in hospitality, not a single penny, unless it was critical to my employment (which it's not).
 
They're risking that if they back them.
No, not to the same degree, not anywhere near.

Me giving you 100, and then borrowing 10, still leaves you with 90. This is effectively the least you can end up with, in this scenario.
I have to give you 100, to get the 10 back. You don't give me 10, without me giving you 100 first.

Alternatively, I can jus not give you 100, and you don't give me 10. Then you have 0.

There could be an argument that you lend the company money, and they go bust before paying you back, but I would say that's low--medium risk, and even if it were high risk, the risk of the company going bust without the loan is higher, it has to be.
 
That’s what I thought myself as he’s at pains to point out we all know fcuk all about it with only 2% of the information but so c**k sure he’s right with the same 2%.🤔
I'm saying I don't know about it either, but I'm saying that they're probably struggling, considering the entire industry is completely wrecked.

You're claiming it's all rosy, and that every business is profitable straight away and has access to finance, it's not the case. The opposite is closer to the truth.
 
No, but I'm not claiming I know the ins and out of their business. I'm saying they might be in deep $hit, and probably are.

It's not my business model, it's just the way it is for most businesses, must are in a massive hole for the first few years at least. Tesla didn't make a profit for about 15 years, maybe go tell Elon Musk he has no idea what he's on about.

Amazon didn't make a profit for about 5 years, Jeff Bezos must be clueless too huh.

You don't know how the others were funded, or when the leases were agreed or anything was signed. Could have been done a year ago. They might have just made a massive mistake and this might now be the only way out. People make mistakes, but this 10% loan and expansion might mean there's 500 employed rather than 250. They will probably all get their money back.

What about the staff that work for these new expanded businesses, it's these staff that are also being asked for loans!

It might not sit right with people, it doesn't sit right with me, but as far as the staff go it's probably the best investment they could make right now. It's a $hit situation, that's what happens in a pandemic.
Jeff Bezos worked on Wall Street and his rich family chipped in to get him started. Elon Musk had PayPal money to fall back on to fund Tesla, they’re not exactly fair analogies are they.
 
I'm saying I don't know about it either, but I'm saying that they're probably struggling, considering the entire industry is completely wrecked.

You're claiming it's all rosy, and that every business is profitable straight away and has access to finance, it's not the case. The opposite is closer to the truth.
I, and I don’t think anyone else claimed anything was remotely approaching “rosy” far from it we’re just decrying this for the chunts trick it is! If they have to ”borrow” 10% off low paid staff for only three months how much do you think that will save them? All the while ( how many times do we have to repeat this) taking on mortgages or leases in some of the most expensive places around!
If they desperately need such a relatively small amount do you think they’ll be around to repay the “loan”?
Reading what I‘ve written do you really think the banks would be the bad guys for not approving a loan? They’d probably chase them out of the office with a bluddy big stick.
 
Jeff Bezos worked on Wall Street and his rich family chipped in to get him started. Elon Musk had PayPal money to fall back on to fund Tesla, they’re not exactly fair analogies are they.
Yes, they are, as a business, they were not profitable for years. Two of the worlds biggest companies effectively had a slow start, so how would you expect it to go for a new restaurant (struggling industry) based in Teesside (a struggling area)?

So, even companies with massive financial backing have to wait for years to become profitable, but you think this is not the case for a small business, operating out of Teesside, likely leased and finance up to the max?

Do you seriously think that any small restaurant business/ chain is going to be starting up from scratch, turning a profit within a few years, and making up for those initial losses, all within 3-4 years?
 
I, and I don’t think anyone else claimed anything was remotely approaching “rosy” far from it we’re just decrying this for the chunts trick it is! If they have to ”borrow” 10% off low paid staff for only three months how much do you think that will save them? All the while ( how many times do we have to repeat this) taking on mortgages or leases in some of the most expensive places around!
If they desperately need such a relatively small amount do you think they’ll be around to repay the “loan”?
Reading what I‘ve written do you really think the banks would be the bad guys for not approving a loan? They’d probably chase them out of the office with a bluddy big stick.
It might save them half a million quid, of pure cashflow. Without positive cashflow, even a good business can fail extremely quickly.

The leases and mortgages they have took on, have meant they have probably took on 20-50 staff per location, too. If you bin the expansion, you bin the jobs too. That would have been say another 200, on the dole, rather than on furlough.

And yes, if they're saying they can pay it back, I would assume they can, if they can't then the staff don't have a job, which is a much bigger problem than losing/ lending 10%. Lenders will look at them more favourably if they go back to trading well over summer (which they will, although probably worse now, with the bad press).

Banks don't want risk now, that's up to them. But if the banks don't want to lend then there goes 500 jobs. What then?

Also, if it's purely for short term cashlfow, banks may be reluctant, as they like to fix loans against assets, so that if it all goes t*ts up, then they have something to take. I expect all their property will be leased or mortgaged, so they may not have much to loan against.
The daft thing is, if they wanted a loan for a digger (that would be of no use to them), then they would probably get it.
 
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