Well ain't Keir Starmer a grand man...

Randy said:
I'm not a Tory fan at all but it's obvious that we the public will pay for it. We can't exactly invoice the virus can we?
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Randy said:
Anyone with half a brain cell knew we would be paying for it last year.
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HolgateCorner said:
Well at least he was ‘honest’ with us today in saying that his spending spree would have to be paid for.
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What exactly has to be paid for?

The Governement created a bunch of money and distributed it how it saw fit. They haven't borrowed it from anyone. They can create a bunch more tomorrow.

There's nothing to pay back. There is no debt.
 
MolteniArcore said:
if the Corporation Tax hike actually goes through that will be passed on to customers (us) and employees (us) making us even more worse off.
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I'm not sure how a company passes a Corporation Tax hike on to anyone except shareholders in the form of lower dividends. It's just something that companies have to deal with.
 
Soutra said:
I'm not sure how a company passes a Corporation Tax hike on to anyone except shareholders in the form of lower dividends. It's just something that companies have to deal with.
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Higher costs to consumers and lower wage increases to staff. You have to increase the prices and reduce the costs to make the same money. It also discourages investment.
 
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Wilf said:
gone before the starter pistol again.

2 things always remind me of 'budget day'

1. is going to Wolves away for the 6th round cup replay and the petrol went up on the afternoon and the scenes & queues at the pumps all the way down the A38 was miraculous.

2. on budget day a lot of people who know less than nowt about owt suddenly become political financial experts that really should give them posts in the cabinet after a successful career in the City - unfortunately a scaffold, ladder or a hoist is as lofty as they got.
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Are you sure miraculous was the word you were looking for there Wilf ;) :unsure:
 
Scrote said:
I asked first.
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I wasn't been funny, the books are in the red aren't they? I always used to say to my parents when I was a kid, everybody could be rich if the banks printed more money, but it doesn't work like that does it.
I'd like to learn what you mean.
 
SuperStu said:
As far as I can tell, you've got this right Soutra. The stat is referencing that if someone receives a wage increase each year between now and 2026, but the tax free allowance doesn't also increase each of those years, the total amount they pay in tax will go up. Of course at the same time they'll have more take home pay left after tax so it's not the most helpful stat really imho.



Also this isn't really correct. Blair's Labour had 2 years of running a surplus rather than a deficit in the late 90s but we've never been "in the black" as in not having a national debt. Not that there's anything wrong with that. There's no economic reason a £0 national debt should be something the government strives for.
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"if someone receives a wage increase each year between now and 2026" when does getting a wage increase each year happen these days ?
 
Randy said:
I'd like to learn what you mean.
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Look up Modern Monetary Theory (it's not actually all that modern any more).

Good place to start is with Stephanie Kelton's The Deficit Myth (linked to a sceptical review to give both sides)*.

Debt is 'good' for government. Inflation is 'bad'.

Tax is used to remove money from the system - not to create a fighting fund.

If the £22bn of Track & Trace cash was being pumped into the economy then it would need taxing out again. If, however, it's been shovelled into offshore accounts then it's largely redundant. It'll be used as offset wealth in purchases that don't really affect inflation rates.




*edit: wasn't as sceptical as I thought at a first glance
 
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Randy said:
So all those workers who work for pubs, restaurants, supply chains, leisure centres, gyms, theme parks, breweries, hotels, holiday parks, tourist attractions etc etc should all have been put on the dole through no fault of their own? Is that what you are saying?

I trust you are either retired or have a job not affected by the pandemic?

😂
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No I do have every respect and sympathy for the workers in those industries, maybe a special lay off package would have been better.

But without going into detail the furlough has been abused by employers as well as some workers. If public money is easy to obtain then there will be a fair proportion of people who see a big opportunity.

I also think it has meant there has been very little pressure on the government to find ways to get people back to work and get the hospitality sector opened back up.

Rishi panicked with the initial furlough scheme and then saw it as a way of kicking the can down the road. He is still at it now even with cases dropping and the vaccine rollout in full swing.
 
HolgateCorner said:
In my opinion -

Workers should have either been laid off by their companies or put onto state benefits if the company’s couldn‘t afford it. This would have been much less cost and prevented abuse of the furlough scheme.

There should have been a doubling of statutory sick pay for those still working but having to isolate with Covid or having been in contact with somebody with Covid. This would have helped prevent workers ignoring the rules and spreading the virus in the workplace.
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Seriously one of the worst ideas I have seen mentioned on here. Do you realise how many people would have actually lost their homes due to that? We already have a housing crisis, how would we house the extra hundreds of thousands who would have lost their jobs without furlough?

The minority that have abused the furlough scheme is nothing compared to the devastation it would have caused if companies were just getting rid of staff. Imagine loosing everything you've ever worked for because your place of work had to close for a year, hardly fair.
 
HolgateCorner said:
No I do have every respect and sympathy for the workers in those industries, maybe a special lay off package would have been better.

But without going into detail the furlough has been abused by employers as well as some workers. If public money is easy to obtain then there will be a fair proportion of people who see a big opportunity.

I also think it has meant there has been very little pressure on the government to find ways to get people back to work and get the hospitality sector opened back up.

Rishi panicked with the initial furlough scheme and then saw it as a way of kicking the can down the road. He is still at it now even with cases dropping and the vaccine rollout in full swing.
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You realise with your grand plan (which is utterly stupid by the way) there would be no hospitality jobs to go back to?

Rishi didn't panic at all. You are aware many other countries implemented similar schemes? France's for example runs until 2022 which was decided as soon as they announced it.

So because a minority abused the system (which was always going to happen because "humans") the whole thing is a bust and everybody should be punished?

You haven't got a scooby do. The job retention scheme has saved people's lives for god's sake.
 
Poor Keir thinks that money is being given to areas that voted for the Conservatives. Who would ever think things like that would go on.
 
So what this thread tells me is the press are doing exactly the same job they have done on every labour leader bar Blair in my lifetime, vilified them, twisted their words,and undermined their messages out of fear that the great british public will wake up to the evils of free market economics Tory style.
 
Randy said:
You realise with your grand plan (which is utterly stupid by the way) there would be no hospitality jobs to go back to?

Rishi didn't panic at all. You are aware many other countries implemented similar schemes? France's for example runs until 2022 which was decided as soon as they announced it.

So because a minority abused the system (which was always going to happen because "humans") the whole thing is a bust and everybody should be punished?

You haven't got a scooby do. The job retention scheme has saved people's lives for god's sake.
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Thanks for the respectful response.

The furlough scheme is not suitable for extended periods in my view. You can’t indefinitely subsidise jobs which do not really exist, that is intrinsically unfair on the rest of the population in all sorts of ways.

Time will tell how many real jobs it has saved.

If the economy rebounds and unemployment stays relatively ok then I will change my mind and think it was possibly worth it to the other tax payers and the economy.

But time will tell.
 
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@Scrote - one of the single biggest myths that gets perpetuated is that ‘UK PLC’ is the same as running a company or that ‘debt’ is the same as a credit card. When you create the money you ‘owe’ using a bank you ‘own’ there is no effing debt.
 
JM14 said:
Seriously one of the worst ideas I have seen mentioned on here. Do you realise how many people would have actually lost their homes due to that? We already have a housing crisis, how would we house the extra hundreds of thousands who would have lost their jobs without furlough?

The minority that have abused the furlough scheme is nothing compared to the devastation it would have caused if companies were just getting rid of staff. Imagine loosing everything you've ever worked for because your place of work had to close for a year, hardly fair.
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Seriously, I think you need to wait and see what happens over the coming months and years.

The economy is bust.
 
Chris_Boro said:
"Rishi" 🤦🏻‍♂️ When ever have MP's been called by their first name?

The subliminal mind hack to make you think they are your mates.
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Sunak is certainly polishing his image ready for a tilt at the leadership.

Ordinary Joe Public calling him and Johnson by their Christian names as if they're bezzy mates is gag-inducing.
 
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