Flower of Scotland

what???? Read what Corcaigh has said on this and lots of other threads about our nation. He is so anti our nation its untrue. I give up. Sticking up for our nation and right to be proud of it and all i see is anti English comments on this by ctc and other threads. Appalling imho
CIC is one of the most insightful, fair and compassionate posters on the board in my opinion.

Flags can be a powerful symbol, some people see it as patriotic and loud and proud. Some people look at it differently aren't always proud of some of the values we currently stand for or proud of a murderous past.

I'd much rather you waved a BLM flag Col to show support for a group of people who are continuously treated unfairly, abused and discriminated against individually and institutionally day in day out. What a marvelous gesture that would be from the people of the country standing up and showing their commitment and belief in British values of fairness and equality, now that would be something to be proud of.
 
CIC is one of the most insightful, fair and compassionate posters on the board in my opinion.

Flags can be a powerful symbol, some people see it as patriotic and loud and proud. Some people look at it differently aren't always proud of some of the values we currently stand for or proud of a murderous past.

I'd much rather you waved a BLM flag Col to show support for a group of people who are continuously treated unfairly, abused and discriminated against individually and institutionally day in day out. What a marvelous gesture that would be from the people of the country standing up and showing their commitment and belief in British values of fairness and equality, now that would be something to be proud of.
This is the thing, I think flags are important, they are powerful symbols of nationality and sovereignty. The problem is they are so powerful they can be hijacked. The flag of St George, for example, was hijacked by the far right in the eighties. The Union flag is currently being used as a political tool to spread bigotry and division in the nation. Hopefully once this government goes, brexit slowly gets reversed and that ridiculous TV channel folds we cans reclaim the union flag as a symbol of pride in the union? I fear it may be too late then and we will have already lost the saltaire.
 
I've no problem with the St George flag being flown during footie tournaments or the Ashes and the like. But the moment I see it used by people, year round.....well you just know what it's there for, and it's the thing ST refers to, above.
 
To be fair that verse hasn't been used since 1745....

FWIW I don't think our national anthem is comical, it's respectful and patriotic and reflects our traditional religious beliefs. It's just a dreadful slow dirge. We need something more bombastic, more exciting. I have no problem with God Save the queen as a concept. though I don't believe in one of these people and am becoming less inclined to the other. The only problem with it is musically. It's boring.
Not only is it boring, it doesn't unite the country. There's a decent sized minority out there that are republicans, and not just in Northern Ireland.
 
CIC is one of the most insightful, fair and compassionate posters on the board in my opinion.

Flags can be a powerful symbol, some people see it as patriotic and loud and proud. Some people look at it differently aren't always proud of some of the values we currently stand for or proud of a murderous past.

I'd much rather you waved a BLM flag Col to show support for a group of people who are continuously treated unfairly, abused and discriminated against individually and institutionally day in day out. What a marvelous gesture that would be from the people of the country standing up and showing their commitment and belief in British values of fairness and equality, now that would be something to be proud of.
Wow, is that some hidden accusation of racism. I hope not, others may read that into your comment even if you did not yourself. I fully support British values of fairness and equality if you are suggesting i do not thats poor, I upheld those all my life and still do. I just wish others in our country did both black and white. Racial equality and fairness is a must but we all are where we are because of our past, it can not be undone and nor should it be, it should be learned from not cancelled. The present and the future is what really counts.
 
Wow, is that some hidden accusation of racism. I hope not, others may read that into your comment even if you did not yourself. I fully support British values of fairness and equality if you are suggesting i do not thats poor, I upheld those all my life and still do. I just wish others in our country did both black and white. Racial equality and fairness is a must but we all are where we are because of our past, it can not be undone and nor should it be, it should be learned from not cancelled. The present and the future is what really counts.
I'm not sure how you thought I was suggesting you were racist by what I said, for the record I don't think you are anti racist.
I believe it is right and proper that we acknowledge and apologise for our past mistakes, that's not cancelling anything, that showing is showing humility and acceptance of responsibility, all of which help healing and bringing people together, but for some, for some reason that seems to be an odd concept.
 
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we all are where we are because of our past, it can not be undone and nor should it be, it should be learned from not cancelled.
Ah the nonsense about "cancelling history".

No history is mostly what we are taught but the truth is often in what we are not taught. So yes, the truth that underlies history has to be uncovered. So when for example there are statues of slave traders like Edward Colston staring serenely across Bristol is it not right that the statue is removed? Or should we still simply honour his philanthropy without even acknowledging where he obtained the money to express his largesse?

It is not cancelling history to highlight the Slave Trade on which a lot of wealth was created and still benefits some.

This inaccurate history blights us, seeing the British Empire as some largely benevolent enterprise that "civilised the world" has engendered the myth of British/English Exceptionalism and contributed in no small measure to the rise of nationalism, insular attitude, Brexit and many other problems.
 
No problem with that, I'd expect English fans to do the same. Just can't get my head around English fans saying they have a soft spot for them and won't be upset if they turn us over tonight.

Personally, I hope we batter them.
Agreed. I'm not all Scottish about it, they have a bee in their bonnets about us. I don't actually hate them, don't really care about them. I just hope we win tonight to get us through to the knockouts
 
Football fans in singing a song abusing their opponents shocker!
That type of song is rare in international football. It goes beyond a football sentiment. I doubt they sing it about Croatia, Czech Republic or any other nation. So not simply 'a song abusing their opponents '.
 
I'm not sure how you thought I was suggesting you were racist by what I said, for the record I don't think you are anti racist.
I believe it is right and proper that we acknowledge and apologise for our past mistakes, that's not cancelling anything, that showing humility and acceptance of responsibility, all of which help healing and bringing people together, but for some, for some reason that seems to be an odd concept.
Of course I am anti racist, suggesting i am not suggests you think i am, which is more than disappointing. I also agree we learn from past behaviours and educate on them to help achieve a fairer society as we move forward. The flag is a symbol of our nation and the fact some obscene far right nutjobs tried to adopt it as theirs is not the fault of the country itself. The problem is debate gets stifled and people try to pigeon hole you like you have here by suggesting i am a little bit racist which sickens me frankly.
 
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