In praise of EV'S

Sadly this argument was obsolete before EVs were around due to pay at pump.
It's not obsolete is it? Not all petrol stations have pay at pump. Also the second part is true as well. It's why I started the thread. To highlight a convenience of refuelling EV compared to ICE that people don't seem to talk about
 
Can you link to the article. it sounds really incorrect this. What "services" were being charged for? Was this like the BBC fraud thing where they drove from Lands end to john o groat and deliberately picked the most expensive chargers and routes?
No it wasn't this one because neither Land's End nor John o groats are in Portugal.
I'll link it when I have time.

I get that you're happy to have an EV, but others aren't yet.
 
No it wasn't this one because neither Land's End nor John o groats are in Portugal.
I'll link it when I have time.

I get that your happy to have an EV, but others aren't yet.
That's why I said "like" that one. Don't be silly.

It's not so much I like my EV, it's just I feel their is a definite media and oil company attempt to hold them back. Hence why I started a thread to talk about one of the undiscussed convenience of owning one.

It's an almost one sided conversation and I hear the same old, incorrect, arguemnts against EV usage. I'm trying to put the record straight on a few things. It does frustrate me that people fall so much for the propaganda holding back take up of them. Hence why I try and sing the praises of things people don't know about.

It is frustrating when people believe the "range anxiety" lie. Especially when they use that as an excuse for not buying one. Pretty much every time when I break down how they actually use a car it becomes obvious that the range of the car won't affect them. I just find it frustrating that instead of realsing this some people come up with ever desperate and longer and more difficult journeys to "prove" their diesel is better. Deep down, we know 90% of the people don't do the journeys they describe
 
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I realise that one day I will probably have an EV.
If I park it outside my house with say 10% charge, will it still have a 10% charge a few days later or will it be flat? Does it lose charge on 'standby'? Or by powering an alarm system for example?
 
OK: some supermarkets give you charging for free. Usually, though, we need to pay through an app or a card. Companies like instavolt are better and you can pay at the charger using your card. IMHO that should be the future, rather than having an app. Although if companies could do what tesla do, where you just connect and get billed automatically that would be the best
Thank you. Although I'm not sure why I would pay for it if I can get it free at my local Tesco.
 
Cars are seldom only a cost based decision, if they were we would all be driving around in 1 of about 10 cars. They are often bought for emotive reasons and you can't argue with that. Each to their own.
 
Thank you. Although I'm not sure why I would pay for it if I can get it free at my local Tesco.
There are usually restrictions on supermarket chargers. They are slow and designed to top up (they are usually at places with parking time restrictions). This is usually fine for day to day use. The charger in my apartment was broken for 4 months (Another EV guide: never ever ever use BP pulse chargers) and I coped with just topping off when I went shopping. For longer journeys you'll need quicker chargers to fill up more. Generally speaking the faster the charger the more expensive it is. Ionity, for example, is brutally expensive if you don't have a VAG car (you get a membership with them). However on a long journey Ionity is very useful because the chargers can go superfast.
 
I realise that one day I will probably have an EV.
If I park it outside my house with say 10% charge, will it still have a 10% charge a few days later or will it be flat? Does it lose charge on 'standby'? Or by powering an alarm system for example?
Yes, sadly EV do lose charge over time. If it's cold, for example, they'll heat the batteries mildly to stop them from freezing (I think they keep them above 3-4 degrees). Power drain is relatively low however. My car has a sentry mode that constantly monitors the outside and records video but that switches off at a low state of charge to preserve the battery. I would say it's similar to the 12v in your ICE car. If leaving it, especially in the cold, you'll need to take it for a run every now and then to top up the battery. With an EV you should plug it in every couple of weeks for similar reasons. I've left mine for a maximum of 4 weeks without plugging in but left it wit a 56% state of charge. I think it dropped to 53%
 
Charging up is going to be interesting - a super fast public charger can charge up a EV in an hour (non Tesla) according to Carwow website. I expect these super chargers are pretty expensive to use, but useful if on a long journey when a recharge is required say every 150/175 miles (charge when down to 20%)

An interesting development is how many chargers will be required. When EVs are dominant on the roads say in 2028 will there be say 150 vehicles want to charge up at peak times at a busy service station?

Will drivers go off and leave their vehicle and come back, like with a lauderette. So charged up vehicles may be taking up space for a while at charging points.

Of course charging times may increase and range extended in newer EVs, but the average EV will be say 6 years old i.e. a 2021/2 model.
 
Charging up is going to be interesting - a super fast public charger can charge up a EV in an hour (non Tesla) according to Carwow website. I expect these super chargers are pretty expensive to use, but useful if on a long journey when a recharge is required say every 150/175 miles (charge when down to 20%)

An interesting development is how many chargers will be required. When EVs are dominant on the roads say in 2028 will there be say 150 vehicles want to charge up at peak times at a busy service station?

Will drivers go off and leave their vehicle and come back, like with a lauderette. So charged up vehicles may be taking up space for a while at charging points.

Of course charging times may increase and range extended in newer EVs, but the average EV will be say 6 years old i.e. a 2021/2 model.
Actually hardly any long journey fast charges will take an hour. Sorry to keep banging the drum but that's just more misinformation. No EV driver fully fills up during a journey unless they absolutely have to. You just charge to complete your journey. Also the phrase non tesla is misleading. Tesla neither have the fastest charging car, nor the fastest chargers.

Third paragraph. Almost. Destination charging is the future: essentially there must be chargers at wherever you are going. This chargers should be speed dependant on location:

e.g. slow chargers at hotels and offices were people will be spending hours charging. Mid speed charges at shopping centres and cinemas and high speed charging at service stations.

Range probably won't increase much as it's acceptable already. A lot of people just don't think this because makers of ICE vehicles have told them it isn't
 

This is the information source. Carwow if anything is pro-electric, certainly no reason to be anti. They are a car selling company and sell a lot of electric and ICE cars.

ST - maybe you should contact them and put them right?
 

This is the information source. Carwow if anything is pro-electric, certainly no reason to be anti. They are a car selling company and sell a lot of electric and ICE cars.

ST - maybe you should contact them and put them right?
I'm trying to, patiently, explain to you why these figures are pointless. You don't fully charge an EV during a journey or on day to day use so "time to full figures" are pointlessly and off puttingly high. Especially as they take into account the slow 90-100% period.

Also those fast charging figures are really vague. The real answer is much more variable. Depending on car and power of fast charger. They are not all the same.
 
I expect these super chargers are pretty expensive to use, but useful if on a long journey when a recharge is required say every 150/175 miles (charge when down to 20%)
cheaper than the petrol / diesel alternative per mile

When EVs are dominant on the roads say in 2028 will there be say 150 vehicles want to charge up at peak times at a busy service station?
this is a fair challenge, and one that will likely be alleviated by much shorter charging times
 
There was an article online recently by a motoring journalist who'd been invited to Portugal to drive the Porsche Taycan. He loved it, but then he stopped at a services and tested the fast charging. Ultimately only 40% of his bill for charging was for electricity (fuel) the rest was service charges. He calculated that it would have been cheaper for him to do his journey in a diesel.
That doesn't sound correct.

My EV is a 400 BHP SUV, doing 0-60 in 5 seconds, and I'm roughly getting the equivalent of a car doing 100mpg. It's effectively 1/4 of the cost to run (on fuel), of a comparable ICE car. That's before you think about it holding value better, no VED and then massive tax breaks if through a company etc.

Most of the cost of petrol is probably on tax, service charges, forecourt rent etc, it's just not broken down like that when you get your receipt.
 
cheaper than the petrol / diesel alternative per mile

this is a fair challenge, and one that will likely be alleviated by much shorter charging times
And that 99% of charging is done at home for most people. I've not been to a service/ fuel station in about 6 months.

My new car (second EV, coming in March) can charge 300 miles in <20 minutes, they (all new ones) should all be doing that by 2025, and definitely by 2028. Most cars now can take 100kW/hr, and on a 50kW battery that's half an hours charge (not factoring in for the 90-100% slow down). I don't charge passed 80-90% for msot charges now anyway mind, so I don't even see any slowdown.

They need to sort out "home" charging for people without a drive/ on street parking though.

If they replace fuel pumps with electric charge points at the rate which more cars become electric then there would be way more supply than demand, again through a massive chunk of people just using home charging.
 
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My bet is that maybe in the future we will need 10% of the fuel stations for electric, to keep up with demand. For me 99% or charging is done at home, for most others (who have a drive or a charge point) it might not be as much as that, but still well over 90% I think.

9/10 petrol stations might go broke, as they won't be delivering fuel, National Grid will be instead, on peoples doorsteps. Some service stations may not end up even selling petrol as it will effectively become pointless to sell it for a small market. 10 garages competing for 10% of the users won't work. Diesel will still be there, for the wagons etc, as that will take longer to transition (but it will cost a fortune).

The whatever percentage that don't have drives will end up charging at supermarkets, shops, restaurants etc, until there's a "home" solution for terraced houses. I think this will just end up being small charging posts though, maybe at 22kW or something that doesn't need to be all that fast.
 
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For me 99% or charging is done at home, for most others (who have a drive or a charge point) it might not be as much as that, but still well over 90% I think.
same. Other than charging at home 99% of the time, I charge at a couple of motorway services 150-200ish miles from home, then occasionally in the destination city, if there is a charge point in the car park of the hotel. That is all most people will ever need.
 
You are correct in that this was a motorway service station in Portugal where he charged for a period at the fastest charging rate to see how quick it was, but was then shocked by what he was charged. Part of what he was pointing out was the high cost of electricity purchased this way, and that by doing that his journey cost him more than it would have done in an ICE equivalent.
 
They actually invented the phrase. The first time those 2 words were recorded together was in GM press after their EV1 car failed. It's a pure anti marketing phrase. Not as bad as what Japan are doing but still not good.

I agree it's harder to refuel away from home because there are so many petrol stations
My points are around convenience though. With all service stations having EV chargers and with destination charging on the rise it's simply easier to refuel is it requires no detours. We still have a way to go, but we are getting there. Just need to counteract straight up lies by the ICE industry such as range anxiety so none EV owners realise the refuel issues aren't what they have been told to think they are.
I'm sure at times it is far more convenient with an EV. I think at the moment though people take comfort from the relative reliability of using ICE in terms of available filling stations. If you're travelling with small kids for example on a long journey you don't want any doubt over your refuelling plan and the speed of it.
We live in the countryside and make longish journeys to countryside locations (for cycling, camping etc) and i'm not sure what the EV charging availability is generally like, i've never really looked into it, i should do really but it's worth making the point that for everybody it's not all about motorways and main routes.
 
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