Chris Wilder explains the Marcus Forss substitute....[Gazette]

r00fie1

Well-known member
It appears we have a number of qualified physiotherapists and medical experts on here, who suggest that Forss should have stayed on - instead of being subbed.
I take the quotes from Chris Wilder about managing substitutions, with particular regards to player fitness, training and minimising the risk of injury.
Clearly, running players into the ground is desirable for some - bearing in mind we have a big squad and plenty of options available [!???].
It would have been really useful in the upcoming games to have Forss out with an injury wouldnt it?
Those of us who arent qualified in this field prefer to leave it to those who are.(y)



Chris Wilder explains the Marcus Forss substitute as he concedes Middlesbrough lost momentum after​

Chris Wilder felt forced to take Marcus Forss off just before the 70th minute as Middlesbrough pushed for an equaliser

1659863225917.png
Chris Wilder felt Middlesbrough's need for reinforcements was never more evident than his 68th-minute change against West Brom.

With Josh Coburn picking up an injury last weekend that could keep him out for up to two months, Wilder could only name Chuba Akpom and 17-year-old Sonny Finch as striker subs at QPR on Saturday.

Falling 3-0 behind in a poor first half, Wilder's side at least gave themselves hope thanks to goals either side of the interval. And in a much better second half, Boro had plenty of opportunities to grab an equaliser to complete a stunning comeback.

However, having already introduced Akpom at half time to great impact, Wilder's options were limited when Marcus Forss ran out of gas as the clock ran beyond the hour mark. Wilder was left with a dilemma. Leave Forss on and risk a muscle injury he can ill-afford, put an awful lot of pressure on young Finch just a day after his 17th birthday or get creative.

He opted for the latter, sending Tommy Smith on for his debut, ultimately meaning Paddy McNair and Matt Crooks one place up, with Crooks finishing as a striker. Crooks has played there before, but Wilder acknowledged it didn't pay off this time as momentum went and Boro's chances of an equaliser slipped away.

Reflecting on it after, the Boro boss said: "Marcus Forss ran out of gas, and we expected he would. We had to try and do something so we tried to put Paddy up into midfield and Crooks up top.

"But yeah, unfortunately it did halt our momentum. We moved the pattern of play of the game because I had to because of Marcus and not risking an injury for him. You leave him on and you risk an overuse injury straight away, and we knew that was the case.

"It would be no good me saying, 'just stay out there boys', and then he does a hamstring or he does a thigh or whatever and then we haven't got him for weeks. We've got to make medical decisions as well as tactical decisions."
 
It makes sense. I did chuckle at some of the comments yesterday saying 'why's he brought a full back on for a forward' 😂

I question a few decisions yesterday... No Fry or Mcnair. Yet that decision wasn't one of them.

Then again is it better to throw on a 17 who's actually a CF? I think he'd come on with no pressure and it's not going to 'ruin' him even if he missed a chance.
 
It appears we have a number of qualified physiotherapists and medical experts on here, who suggest that Forss should have stayed on - instead of being subbed.
I take the quotes from Chris Wilder about managing substitutions, with particular regards to player fitness, training and minimising the risk of injury.
Clearly, running players into the ground is desirable for some - bearing in mind we have a big squad and plenty of options available [!???].
It would have been really useful in the upcoming games to have Forss out with an injury wouldnt it?
Those of us who arent qualified in this field prefer to leave it to those who are.(y)



Chris Wilder explains the Marcus Forss substitute as he concedes Middlesbrough lost momentum after​

Chris Wilder felt forced to take Marcus Forss off just before the 70th minute as Middlesbrough pushed for an equaliser

View attachment 42439
Chris Wilder felt Middlesbrough's need for reinforcements was never more evident than his 68th-minute change against West Brom.

With Josh Coburn picking up an injury last weekend that could keep him out for up to two months, Wilder could only name Chuba Akpom and 17-year-old Sonny Finch as striker subs at QPR on Saturday.

Falling 3-0 behind in a poor first half, Wilder's side at least gave themselves hope thanks to goals either side of the interval. And in a much better second half, Boro had plenty of opportunities to grab an equaliser to complete a stunning comeback.

However, having already introduced Akpom at half time to great impact, Wilder's options were limited when Marcus Forss ran out of gas as the clock ran beyond the hour mark. Wilder was left with a dilemma. Leave Forss on and risk a muscle injury he can ill-afford, put an awful lot of pressure on young Finch just a day after his 17th birthday or get creative.


He opted for the latter, sending Tommy Smith on for his debut, ultimately meaning Paddy McNair and Matt Crooks one place up, with Crooks finishing as a striker. Crooks has played there before, but Wilder acknowledged it didn't pay off this time as momentum went and Boro's chances of an equaliser slipped away.

Reflecting on it after, the Boro boss said: "Marcus Forss ran out of gas, and we expected he would. We had to try and do something so we tried to put Paddy up into midfield and Crooks up top.


"But yeah, unfortunately it did halt our momentum. We moved the pattern of play of the game because I had to because of Marcus and not risking an injury for him. You leave him on and you risk an overuse injury straight away, and we knew that was the case.

"It would be no good me saying, 'just stay out there boys', and then he does a hamstring or he does a thigh or whatever and then we haven't got him for weeks. We've got to make medical decisions as well as tactical decisions."
Or you can believe his spin...a player that has been through a full pre-season with Brentford can't last more than 60mins without tearing a muscle???
 
Sonny Finch scored in pre-season and looked lively, so did Callum Kavanagh who scored two. Why not give these lads a crack? When chasing the game surely it’s a better option than a journeyman right back. We don’t know if they’re ‘good enough’ or not until they play. We know Watmore isn’t.

However much he tries to justify it, it was a negative decision.
 
When they had that drinks break not long before he came off, Forss was was deep in conversation with one of the conditioning coaches. That's when the decision was made. Re Finch, Wilder agreed he was an option but went for the alternative of Crooks up front. Not in itself a bad call, but it unfortunately didn't work. It was just as likely Finch's introduction would have made no difference either. It wasn't negative, it was a choice that didn't work.
 
Or you can believe his spin...a player that has been through a full pre-season with Brentford can't last more than 60mins without tearing a muscle???
".....believe his spin"?
Can I have that in English please.
Do you believe Mr Wilder is deliberately making excuses not to win games.
Clearly you are deluded.
Enjoy the season.(y)
 
Or you can believe his spin...a player that has been through a full pre-season with Brentford can't last more than 60mins without tearing a muscle???

Forss didn't play a single minute of pre-season for Brentford.

He played 60 minutes for Brentford B against Maidenhead United on the 16th of July, that's the extent of his involvement in pre-season fixtures at Brentford.

That's not a full pre-season.
 
Makes me wonder, why not have him on the bench until he gets his preferred strikers in!! it was calling out for physicality late on yesterday, and its a waste when hes still on our books and collecting a wage..

Wilder doesn't want Uche, Watmore, Coburn or despite playing well when he came on Akpom in his side ..
 
".....believe his spin"?
Can I have that in English please.
Do you believe Mr Wilder is deliberately making excuses not to win games.
Clearly you are deluded.
Enjoy the season.(y)
Would you like the Oxford dictionary?

"To draw out and twist"

What other bits of English do you not understand?
 
Just watched the post match by CW. I have to say CW looked a frustrated figure and rightly so as he was honest about the performance.

But more than that he’s kind of handcuffed right now especially with how he pitches the team talk and how players should go out on a very hot day and try to manage themselves so that they don’t get injured but still win the game.

I don’t know how he can effectively manage the team / squad in tbe current situation with players that maybe are 60-70 percent fit (Akpom/Fry/Forss/ a n other) and go for a win. Let’s face it it’s like playing chess without your Queen and Rooks— you’re not going to do well that’s for sure.

We suffered checkmate maybe too early and then there was the second half where maybe the teamtalk he should have initially gave was issued at halftime.

It was delivered too late of course although we had chances to make it 3-3 but then we enter the “what-if” with the penalty appeal and other chances we had.

My point sis that CW only has 12 or so players to play with who are reasonably fit then he has to tread carefully with each game until we get a full compliment of players in.

Granted it perhaps could have been handled better but we’re in a hole and it’s bad situation but let’s see that the next few weeks bring- hopefully it can’t get any worse.
 
Exactly, terrible decisions by wilder moving 3 players for one sub dear me….
Personally I thought the subs were about right. Bringing a young lad on to win a game for us in a high intensity situation (as it was at the time), could indeed damaged a young lads confidence. Imagine him missing a sitter for a win or to salvage a point with 2 minutes to go.

Putting crooks up top (where he's played previously at a point in the game when we were delivering balls from wide situations) seemed reasonable. Moving mcNair up to be more effective made sense to me too.
It kind of dispelled the theory of wilder being a 'one trick pony' too. Changing tactics and formation to go for a win is something I love about his attitude. He said from the start of his tenure - I'll always go for a win where I can. This reinforced this attitude for me.
It didn't pay off as we lost momentum in the last 20. If we had got the equaliser and / or winner we'd all be singing his praises here calling his changes a 'master stroke'.
It's fine margins in this league.
 
Back
Top