£27,000 a year?

Boroboyyo said:
It’s not “selfish” at all . It’s merely looking at it from a different perspective to you . For the record , my vote changes according to the most appealing at the time . I have voted both Labour or conservative in the past . Political parties are not football teams who deserve unwavering loyalty

I can certainly see the justification if it results in better working conditions for the nurses , but just raising their wages to their demands is just trying a simple fix to a complex issue. We’re entering recession now, cost of living is going up and any increase in wages is going to be costed to the taxpayer as they’re public sector workers . Telling lower earning people that their nic contributions must go up to account for an entry level role that is already paying near the average uk salary already isn’t ethical either

I can understand if they want to ease working conditions and that is entirely justifiable if the work load is mental . I’ve dealt with that myself . Op was trying to make out that 27k is ridiculous for a starting wage though . I happen to disagree
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Firstly, I completely agree with "Political parties are not football teams who deserve unwavering loyalty" and this needs to be remembered more

But everything after that... you have actual nurses (and spouses of nurses) in this thread telling you that the progression is limited and hard to achieve. Just because your mum used to be a nurse doesn't mean that it is the same nowadays. And you're right, we're entering recession and the cost of living is going up - why shouldn't nurses get a pay rise? (especially after years of effective pay cuts).

They get screwed over because the government play on conscience because if they strike then it affects health outcomes for patients and the nurses won't want that. I dare say that there will be deaths as a result of this strike, but the weight of that should be on the government not the nurses. Unfortunately, the nurses will take the brunt of it on the front-lines from (rightfully) angry and distressed family members, and from the media.

"Telling lower earning people that their nic contributions must go up" - why do tax increases always target the lower earners, and tax cuts always target the higher earners?

I also think the above is largely true for Teachers (starting salary £28k) and a lot of other public sector workers. Over worked, and under paid. You could argue they are adequately paid, if their workload is reduced to more sustainable levels - but to do that you have to recruit people into a career that is now tarred with all of the above. The only way to do that is to raise wages and improve conditions. You reap what you sow, and this is just the inevitable outcome of what the government has implemented over the years
 
kuepper said:
Of course in a progressive country like Scotland nurses do get a bursary https://www.gov.scot/publications/s...-midwifery-students-scotland-2022-23/pages/4/

They've also been made a £2205 flat rate pay offer
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And in England (although only £5,000 per year compared to £10,000 per year in Scotland). Not called a Bursary anymore but Learning Support Fund.
https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/nhs-learning-support-fund-lsf
My daughter is currently 2nd year and is receiving it.
 
Boro4life said:
27k for someone recently graduated isn't bad it is more you can't really progress much from this wage unlike in other professions
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not like they don't know this before chosing what to study, like becoming a cleaner then working out you can only really become supervisor of the other cleaners and the money isnt that much greater either
 
muniz said:
not like they don't know this before chosing what to study, like becoming a cleaner then working out you can only really become supervisor of the other cleaners and the money isnt that much greater either
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Choosing what to study or vocation?

To be perfectly honest your comment comes across as snidey, and you are not the only one.

Nurses have had a 7.5% real terms pay cut over the last 10 years. They are using food banks and payday loans to get through the month. Not sure it is conducive to great care if the nurses looking after you can barely look after themselves.

Anyone who thinks nurses get paid enough are idiots.
 
Laughing said:
Choosing what to study or vocation?

To be perfectly honest your comment comes across as snidey, and you are not the only one.

Nurses have had a 7.5% real terms pay cut over the last 10 years. They are using food banks and payday loans to get through the month. Not sure it is conducive to great care if the nurses looking after you can barely look after themselves.

Anyone who thinks nurses get paid enough are idiots.
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It is of course a scandal that such a large number of people rely on foodbanks regardless of their profession.
For balance. Not all nurses use food banks. Not all use payday loans.
Even if they were given a substantial pay rise, I am sure there will be some who still have to use them due to their personal circumstances.
I am not sure if the number of nurses using foodbanks and loans is a lot higher than the rest of society, if so then I apologise.
 
Rofesleg said:
It is of course a scandal that such a large number of people rely on foodbanks regardless of their profession.
For balance. Not all nurses use food banks. Not all use payday loans.
Even if they were given a substantial pay rise, I am sure there will be some who still have to use them due to their personal circumstances.
I am not sure if the number of nurses using foodbanks and loans is a lot higher than the rest of society, if so then I apologise.
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I have no idea whether the percentage is higher or lower amongst nurses when compared to other professions. But we should be comparing them with other professions not society in general. I have a degree in computer science and I know what I get paid, and it makes a mockery of the medical profession.

The question shouldn't be, are they paid enough to avoid financial hardship, should it? Equally their circumstances shouldn't be compared to society in a wider context. If we want a decent health service, something vital to all of us, then we should pay them appropriately. It isn't coincidence that we need 50k more nurses (that's 31 nurses for every hospital). It is because we don't pay them enough.

And I haven't even touched on the pandemic response from the NHS. 120 deaths, caused by doing their job and we only have figures up to 2020. The numbers are comparable with servicemen that died in the Iraq war.

There are some mental gymnastics going on in this thread that are straight from the tory playbook.
 
Laughing said:
I have no idea whether the percentage is higher or lower amongst nurses when compared to other professions. But we should be comparing them with other professions not society in general. I have a degree in computer science and I know what I get paid, and it makes a mockery of the medical profession.

The question shouldn't be, are they paid enough to avoid financial hardship, should it? Equally their circumstances shouldn't be compared to society in a wider context. If we want a decent health service, something vital to all of us, then we should pay them appropriately. It isn't coincidence that we need 50k more nurses (that's 31 nurses for every hospital). It is because we don't pay them enough.

And I haven't even touched on the pandemic response from the NHS. 120 deaths, caused by doing their job and we only have figures up to 2020. The numbers are comparable with servicemen that died in the Iraq war.

There are some mental gymnastics going on in this thread that are straight from the tory playbook.
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I agree, but implying that all nurses have to use foodbanks to survive also plays into that playbook as it is misleading and moves the discussion away from where it should be.
And to compare against other specific professions is also not helpful.
Unfortunately, as a general rule people don't get paid in line with their value to society. Others get paid more - they get paid in line with their value to the company they work for.
I get paid more than a lot of nurses, most binmen and shopworkers too. Their jobs are all more useful to society than mine.
 
Rofesleg said:
I agree, but implying that all nurses have to use foodbanks to survive also plays into that playbook as it is misleading and moves the discussion away from where it should be.
And to compare against other specific professions is also not helpful.
Unfortunately, as a general rule people don't get paid in line with their value to society. Others get paid more - they get paid in line with their value to the company they work for.
I get paid more than a lot of nurses, most binmen and shopworkers too. Their jobs are all more useful to society than mine.
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Straight out of the Tory playbook - set working people against each other, instead of the real problem.
 
Maybe it is time that the NHS is privatized, with the government encouraging companies to give workers private healthcare insurance, a price cap on private healthcare insurance for the general public and subsidised also offer for free to those who qualify to NEED it. or maybe just follow what a lot of Europe do and request small fees for treatment...

The NHS is too big now and their quality of care is suffering at the expense of its people, the amount of nurses we have in todays economy it isn't sustainable to give them wages they deserve, there isn't a lot of money in majority of public sector jobs.
 
Teesside96 said:
Maybe it is time that the NHS is privatized, with the government encouraging companies to give workers private healthcare insurance, a price cap on private healthcare insurance for the general public and subsidised also offer for free to those who qualify to NEED it. or maybe just follow what a lot of Europe do and request small fees for treatment...

The NHS is too big now and their quality of care is suffering at the expense of its people, the amount of nurses we have in todays economy it isn't sustainable to give them wages they deserve, there isn't a lot of money in majority of public sector jobs.
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The level of care is suffering because we don't fund it properly. However we pay for healthcare it has to be payed for. Personally I don't believe that healthcare should be dependent on your ability to pay, which is what you are suggesting.
 
Laughing said:
The level of care is suffering because we don't fund it properly. However we pay for healthcare it has to be payed for. Personally I don't believe that healthcare should be dependent on your ability to pay, which is what you are suggesting.
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Where is this funding coming from the countries on it's @rse?
 
Teesside96 said:
Where is this funding coming from the countries on it's @rse?
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Keeping your workforce fit and healthy pays for itself.

For example, mental health issues cost the country 117Billion a year. Other illness costs us 78 billion a year. Sort out the workforce and it easily pays for itself. Don't be so myopic.
 
We have the same issues here - unfortunately people not willing to pay taxes but expecting the level of care to be up there, then wondering why they can't get an appointment at the docs the next day or have to spend 24 hours in A&E. Most often its not A&E thats the pinch point, its finding beds in the hospital on the wards they need to go on.

My wife is a nurse, for nearly 34 years now, both UK & here, and we are getting like the NHS was when we left the UK in 2007. Its very worrying.

However, one thing that all nurses agree about is its not always about pay, but conditions. Give them the correct number of staff on the wards and they will be happier, can take breaks and leave on time, although pay is clearly an issue too.

We are extremely short of nurses here, and a lot of our nurses once qualified (or they get citizenship) tittle off to Oz, better pay and conditions.
 
Laughing said:
Choosing what to study or vocation?

To be perfectly honest your comment comes across as snidey, and you are not the only one.

Nurses have had a 7.5% real terms pay cut over the last 10 years. They are using food banks and payday loans to get through the month. Not sure it is conducive to great care if the nurses looking after you can barely look after themselves.

Anyone who thinks nurses get paid enough are idiots.
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“Anyone who thinks nurses get paid enough are idiots”
Yes that’s true, and luckily there’s an endless supply of them in the U.K. to choose from
 
Teesside96 said:
Maybe it is time that the NHS is privatized, with the government encouraging companies to give workers private healthcare insurance, a price cap on private healthcare insurance for the general public and subsidised also offer for free to those who qualify to NEED it. or maybe just follow what a lot of Europe do and request small fees for treatment...

The NHS is too big now and their quality of care is suffering at the expense of its people, the amount of nurses we have in todays economy it isn't sustainable to give them wages they deserve, there isn't a lot of money in majority of public sector jobs.
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Name one area of the public sector that has been privatised that hasn't been a disaster. Privatisation is NEVER the answer.
 
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