Boris planning to scrap Covid rules completely

I feel most for the more elderly and vulnerable that remain most at risk from this. Covid in itself won't likely harm me, probably completely pass me by.

The vulnerable people I talk to daily are less safe and secure in that thought.

Keeping certain measures in place, to save a few lives in the long run just seems a no brainer to me. Investing in saving lives again seems sensible. Scrapping everything and giving up on those most vulnerable seems somewhat selfish.

This isn't about locking down, its about making an environment safer for those most vulnerable.
 
It's always going to be difficult to maintain non pharma legislation to control a pandemic when you seem to have done everything you can, pharmacological.

We can agree or disagree but the public isn't going to abide by legislation very much longer. Partly because many are wondering what the point is and probably a fair number are thinking of the government can do what they want, so can I.

The only restriction at the minute that is worth a damn is isolation and that's the one the government wants rid of as it adversely affects the economy which is in the toilet to begin with.

Nothing will happen until the spring anyway, by which time the picture may look very different.
 
The Republic of Ireland are the latest country to scrap a vast majority of covid restrictions. Vaccine passports? Gone. Closures of hospitality venues. Ended. Mask wearing in certain settings advised to continue. They say they are over the peak of the Omicron wave and also have a high uptake of vaccines.

A shift is happening for sure.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
Lying lickspittle?
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Page 38 has the case rates. Page 34 has the 28 day death statistics.

Background...
"By 16 January 2022, the overall vaccine uptake in England for dose 1 was 68.9% and for dose 2 was 63.6%. Overall vaccine uptake in England in people with at least 3 doses was 48.4%. In line with the programme rollout, coverage is highest in the oldest age groups."

In this report around 1600 vaccinated have died in the last four weeks from Covid, compared with 360 unvaccinated. There are various factors that might explain the results: age, illness etc. No one can simply present the results and draw direct conclusions without additional research. The rough fatality rate for the last 4 weeks was 0.06% but probably includes some Delta deaths.

Overall case rates: Vaccinated 3074/100,000 Unvaccinated 2475/100,000
 
br14 said:
Overall case rates: Vaccinated 3074/100,000 Unvaccinated 2475/100,000
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However, as also stated in that report, on page 31:

"The vaccination status of cases, inpatients and deaths should not be used to assess vaccine effectiveness because of differences in risk, behaviour and testing in the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations. The case rates in the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations are crude rates that do not take into account underlying statistical biases in the data. There are likely to be systematic differences between vaccinated and unvaccinated populations, for example:

• testing behaviour is likely to be different between people with different vaccination status, resulting in differences in the chances of being identified as a case

• many of those who were at the head of the queue for vaccination are those at higher risk from COVID-19 due to their age, their occupation, their family circumstances or because of underlying health issues

• people who are fully vaccinated and people who are unvaccinated may behave differently, particularly with regard to social interactions and therefore may have differing levels of exposure to COVID-19

• people who have never been vaccinated are more likely to have caught COVID-19 in the weeks or months before the period of the cases covered in the report. This gives them some natural immunity to the virus which may have contributed to a lower case rate in the past few weeks

These biases become more evident as more people are vaccinated and the differences between the vaccinated and unvaccinated population become systematically different in ways that are not accounted for without undertaking formal analysis of vaccine effectiveness."
 
Liamo said:
However, as also stated in that report, on page 31:

"The vaccination status of cases, inpatients and deaths should not be used to assess vaccine effectiveness because of differences in risk, behaviour and testing in the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations. The case rates in the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations are crude rates that do not take into account underlying statistical biases in the data. There are likely to be systematic differences between vaccinated and unvaccinated populations, for example:

• testing behaviour is likely to be different between people with different vaccination status, resulting in differences in the chances of being identified as a case

• many of those who were at the head of the queue for vaccination are those at higher risk from COVID-19 due to their age, their occupation, their family circumstances or because of underlying health issues

• people who are fully vaccinated and people who are unvaccinated may behave differently, particularly with regard to social interactions and therefore may have differing levels of exposure to COVID-19

• people who have never been vaccinated are more likely to have caught COVID-19 in the weeks or months before the period of the cases covered in the report. This gives them some natural immunity to the virus which may have contributed to a lower case rate in the past few weeks

These biases become more evident as more people are vaccinated and the differences between the vaccinated and unvaccinated population become systematically different in ways that are not accounted for without undertaking formal analysis of vaccine effectiveness."
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He’s been told exactly that before. He doesn’t care, he’d much rather peddle misinformation.
 
Adi_Dem said:
I have no intention of having another legal debate on here. You seem to know it all so I will leave you with your own knowledge.

I’m not panicking in the slightest. I will be at the games. I’m sure you think you’re making a good point.
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Adi is struggling when he’s only got smalltown and zorro for back up. ☹️
Randy said:
The Republic of Ireland are the latest country to scrap a vast majority of covid restrictions. Vaccine passports? Gone. Closures of hospitality venues. Ended. Mask wearing in certain settings advised to continue. They say they are over the peak of the Omicron wave and also have a high uptake of vaccines.

A shift is happening for sure.
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All the experts and scientists are saying it’s time to lift the rules now and live with it. It seems omnicron has been the best thing to happen for this disease suppressing the more serious variants. I think it’s quite telling Adi only has the likes of zorro and smalltown backing up his posts.
 
There is probably an element of people sticking to their guns in a changing circumstance, understandable I suppose having supported restrictions for 2 years
 
boroPE said:
Adi is struggling when he’s only got smalltown and zorro for back up. ☹️

All the experts and scientists are saying it’s time to lift the rules now and live with it. It seems omnicron has been the best thing to happen for this disease suppressing the more serious variants. I think it’s quite telling Adi only has the likes of zorro and smalltown backing up his posts.
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😂

Nice try but…..

BLAM

And blocked.


Laughing said:
There is probably an element of people sticking to their guns in a changing circumstance, understandable I suppose having supported restrictions for 2 years
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Certainly not on my part. There are hugely positive signs but caution is needed. I don’t even think we are at the end of the beginning yet and the mistakes over the past two years by this government have been to go too little too late and to lift restrictions too early.
 
Adi_Dem said:
😂

Nice try but…..

BLAM

And blocked.




Certainly not on my part. There are hugely positive signs but caution is needed. I don’t even think we are at the end of the beginning yet and the mistakes over the past two years by this government have been to go too little too late and to lift restrictions too early.
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My comment wasn't aimed at anyone in particular Adi. However, right through the pandemic there have been diametrically opposed views and many will find it difficult to let go of those views regardless of a changing scientific view.

It's difficult to move from "selfish granny killer" to "time to live with it".

Of course, at some point it's inevitable.

The report that br14 mentioned is months out of date, I believe. The caveats I read in a report some time ago, so assuming it's the same report and it, by and large, muddies the waters. I think it is very unhelpful because of the way it can be interpreted. Not their fault, the numbers are the numbers.
 
Laughing said:
My comment wasn't aimed at anyone in particular Adi. However, right through the pandemic there have been diametrically opposed views and many will find it difficult to let go of those views regardless of a changing scientific view.

It's difficult to move from "selfish granny killer" to "time to live with it".

Of course, at some point it's inevitable.

The report that br14 mentioned is months out of date, I believe. The caveats I read in a report some time ago, so assuming it's the same report and it, by and large, muddies the waters. I think it is very unhelpful because of the way it can be interpreted. Not their fault, the numbers are the numbers.
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Living with it though may mean different things. My approach has been simple in terms of forming my opinion. It changes as the data and the world scientific view changes and not by wishful thinking or by whatever this bloody government might make up on the spot from day to day!
 
We will come out of this and all restrictions will go.

There are increasingly positive signs and I hope we will get there soon.

Some people will want to hang onto some measures, that’s fine if comforts them.

Change will come and not everyone will like it.
 
While hospital admissions are rising in some areas it seems premature. Planning of course is sensible.

Perhaps setting some transparent benchmarks for what would trigger more or less measures. Be open and honest about what loss in acceptable.

Also try and encourage engagement with things like track and trace again as numbers drop. At least attempt to make those most vulnerable a little safer.
 
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