Can you admit that Southgate is doing a great job yet?

dontheking said:
Just thought I'd better give some insight that doesn't fit the narrative, challenge you lot abit.
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I think I speak on behalf of everybody on the board when I say a heartfelt thank you for this, we're sincerely grateful. Imagine where we'd have been without this insight and challenge.
 
Lefty said:
So Southgate is doing a great job if he wins this tournament even if it is via a penalty shoot out in the final.

Yet you don't think he is doing a great job because he lost in a penalty shoot out in the final of the previous major tournament?

Is that not therefore basing your entire judgement as to whether he is a great manager or not on how good his team is at penalty shoot outs?
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No its judging on winning. He's game management cost us that final against Italy. Should of have it wrapped up really, we lost it they never won it.
Don't think he's a bad guy or manager, just not a great manager.
Think my posts are really starting to affect people emotionally are you all related to gaz?
 
Nano said:
Repeat repeat repeat. He has a great record in games we should win and a dreadful record in games where we shouldn't.
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So your issue with him is that he doesn't win games he shouldn't win? :ROFLMAO: 🤷‍♂️ He did beat Spain and France in Nations League though

Nano said:
Even the strongest squads like France and Brazil have players that aren't top level.
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Every single First XI player in France or Brazil would be at worst case be our first choice backup, and ,ost of them would go straight into our team. I don't think you can say that about many in our team.

Glover_elbow said:
You make it sound like the only alternative to slow possession based football is kick and rush that's completely disingenuous.
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It is what we did in England before Southgate, he changed that and the results improved. I don't understand this 'slow possession football', it is simply a way of focusing on what you are not doing, compared to what you are doing. We probe by moving the ball across the back until the opposition don't adjust their shape properly.

This is only the in possession part of the game anyway, there are 4 phases to play, do you have a problem with Southgate's approach to the other 3 phases?
 
BoroMart said:
So your issue with him is that he doesn't win games he shouldn't win? :ROFLMAO: 🤷‍♂️ He did beat Spain and France in Nations League though
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Obviously, yes. You win things by beating the teams that are as good as you or better. Friendlies are meaningless. Nobody cares.

Shouldn't win means any game where we aren't comfortable favourites.

BoroMart said:
Every single First XI player in France or Brazil would be at worst case be our first choice backup, and ,ost of them would go straight into our team. I don't think you can say that about many in our team.
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I don't know what point you are making here. Yes, they have a better squad than England but England are good enough to beat them. We have good attacking players. Those teams still have weaknesses. Brazil have a 38 year old centre back, a midfield with Fred and Paqueta who aren't regulars for their club team, Richarlison is backup to England's striker and their best player is injured. France are missing several stars and outside their first 11 they aren't anything special.
 
Nano said:
Obviously, yes. You win things by beating the teams that are as good as you or better. Friendlies are meaningless. Nobody cares.
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they were competitive games

Nano said:
I don't know what point you are making here. Yes, they have a better squad than England
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you've answered my point. They have significantly better squads.


Nano said:
Those teams still have weaknesses. Brazil have a 38 year old centre back
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Who would be first choice CB for England if he were english

Nano said:
a midfield with Fred and Paqueta who aren't regulars for their club team, Richarlison is backup to England's striker
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They also have comfortably two of the best players in the world right now.

Bottom line is they both have far better squads than us, we could beat them with a slice of luck, GK playing a worldie and one or two of their team being off form.
 
Nano said:
You win things by beating the teams that are as good as you or better......
......Shouldn't win means any game where we aren't comfortable favourites.
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Using that logic, it is only worth winning a tournament if you aren't the best team in that tournament.
 
Rofesleg said:
Using that logic, it is only worth winning a tournament if you aren't the best team in that tournament.
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No, that doesn't make sense. We're talking about the performance of a manager. The manager is doing a good job if he meets expectations, a very good job if he exceeds them and a poor job if he doesn't meet expectations. Southgate is meeting expectations so he's doing a good job but not a great job and I don't think he's capable of doing a great job because I don't think he's a particularly good manager.

BoroMart said:
Bottom line is they both have far better squads than us, we could beat them with a slice of luck, GK playing a worldie and one or two of their team being off form.
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I never said we have the best squad. I said they have weaknesses. Just because their weakness is similar to ours doesn't mean it isn't a weakness. We are capable of beating any of them if we approach the games against them differently than we have in the past when we have played the top teams.

As a PL comparison (last season's positions) I would say England are about Tottenham's level. Very good, some great players and capable of winning but not quite as good as City (France) or Liverpool (Brazil). I wouldn't give Spurs a chance in the league but as a cup team they have a very good chance.
 
dontheking said:
I don't think you speak on behalf of everybody people can speak for themselves, but thanks for the encouragement.
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I think I speak on behalf of everybody on the board when I say that in fact I have been nominated as the spokesperson of the board and everybody wants me to speak for them.
 
SuperStu said:
I think I speak on behalf of everybody on the board when I say that in fact I have been nominated as the spokesperson of the board and everybody wants me to speak for them.
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I think that you think that you think that you think that you think that you speak for everybody but I think that everyone thinks different to how you think so you can't think for everyone who thinks for themselves.
 
Pak_Doo_Ik said:
We didn't win the Nations league, we got to the semis and lost to Holland (IIRC).

Southgate has made us difficult to beat in major competitions, that cannot be disputed and his record is easily up there as one the best England managers. But he is stubborn and still struggles to change a game when things aren't going well and that is ultimately what is held against him. Saying that I was impressed with the way we came out in the 2nd half as it felt like the team had been given a rocket, but can't help but feel annoyed that we didn't do that against the US.

Worryingly I think we'll revert back to type against Senegal by bringing back Mount, Sterling and/or Saka, along with dropping Foden and Rashford as Southgate sets up a team that will be difficult to beat again rather than focus on our strength which is attacking teams and forcing them to defend.
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But gets us into the last 8
 
The Card Cheat said:
Seriously......some England fans are hilarious.
Soutgate has won more tournament games than the last 6 managers put together. More knockout wins than the last 7 managers put together. Many of those managers had stronger squads than Southgates options.
First final in 55 years.
England for decades from the 70s onwards have been have been perennial failures, usually embarrassingly so . Until Southgate, what a coincidence. 🙄
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Don’t bother TCC
Some people don’t appreciate what Gareth has done and is doing
 
When England play with pace and 1 or 2 touch football they are a joy to watch and able to beat anyone.
However when we are playing a good team its Southgates mind set to try not to lose first. We sit back and make lots and lots of pointless square or backward passes.
I hope Im wrong and he goes out and attacks teams as we look good when we do it.
Come on England.
 
This thread is hilarious. Don’t know where people get the time to post 🤣

I’ll sum it up for you; sometimes England play well and more times they don’t but the manager is a decent fella but limited with his ability to get everything out of a talented group as much as he should.
End of.
 
Ex Footy Legs said:
This thread is hilarious. Don’t know where people get the time to post 🤣

I’ll sum it up for you; sometimes England play well and more times they don’t but the manager is a decent fella but limited with his ability to get everything out of a talented group as much as he should.
End of.
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He's a lot less limited when it comes to getting the most out of his players than any England manager in the last 50 years.
Also putting "end of" at the end of something doesn't mean you've won the argument and theres nothing more to be said. It just means "Hey everyone I'm a bit of a chump".
 
This thread is all about OPINIONS. Some people are of the opinion that Southgate isn't the greatest England manager of modern times. Other people have the opinion that he is.

That, in itself, is fine.

But it seems like the 'pro Southgate' lobby (shall we call it that?) can't accept that people have different opinions and are trying their hardest to convert the others.

Come on lads, we can all have different opinions. Not sure it needs 12 pages. Ultimately we all want England to win and do well so I don't know what the problem really is?
 
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