Can you admit that Southgate is doing a great job yet?

KDG said:
Without reading the previous 12 pages ill pop my two cents in:

Southgate from day 1 was unpopular with most fans. Most fans seem to think the England job can only go to a well-known and successful domestic manager. The fact that Southgate's only well-known role was getting relegated with us was never going to make him a popular choice. However, like all managers, judgement should have been reserved until we started to see games and the outcomes.

The facts are simple, Southgate has taken us to three major tournaments - two world cups and one European championships. In the latter he has produced our best ever result as runners up. In the World Cup he got our joint second-best performance in reaching the Semi Final, not done since 1990. Yet, throughout all of this the excuses have been thrown at him, the draw was easy, you still did not win anything - Both true, however we can only play what is in front of us. Perhaps if some of the so called big teams he avoided performed as they should our path would not have been as straight forward.

Coupled with the above you have the belief that this is one of the best crop of youngsters we have had in a long time and so many of them are attacking players so we should play them all and blow every team away - Except, how do you play them all? In the Euro's everybody cried for Grealish, this time its Foden's turn. The reality is the performance does not change that much regardless of the personal, the positive is we can replace with players just as good and we often then see real impact when the changes are made.

We have all seen the so called 'Golden Generation' fail to deliver. Despite the fact they had no team spirit or even liked each other that much, we had an arrogance back then in major tournaments where we believed the 442, fast pace of the Premier League (best league in the world dont you know) would win us something. In reality by the 60th minute we where blowing out of our backsides and getting beat of much better technical players even if there names didn't suit.

Southgate is the first England manager in my life time that is treating tournament football how it should be treated. Dull at times, of course but what nation isnt it. But its productive and it works. I cant remember ever being so comfortable in a group stage and not being the slightest bit nervous, i have never had that in the past.

His selection and subs have been questioned and sometimes justified but he has also got a number of selections correct.

I am sick of hearing so called experts pull him apart for not playing this player, playing two holders etc. Jamie O'Hara on talksport saying he would rather get eliminated and be excited in a game than this are pathetic.

So far Southgate has passed his first task, getting through the groups. The USA game helped us realise that Rice and Bellingham as a two will not be enough in the knockouts, so he changed it. Foden and Rashford have taken their chance - despite a fairly average first half, Southgate swapped them over and it was much better. We have also scored 9 goals (more than anyone else for the most defensive and negative side ever) and Kane hasn't got one yet.

Do i think we will win the World Cup? Absolutely not but Southgate has got us a to a level we have all dreamed off since Euro 96 and we finally play like an international team should. He won't be there forever so get behind him, enjoy it and be happy that England are a contender again.
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Agree with all of that KDG - except for the bit about not winning the World Cup. ;)
 
Most of the criticism that Southgate receives is for being too negative and I think the thing that leads to this is that he generally plays Rice with another holding CM (either Phillips or Henderson). I don't necessarily think this makes us play with a negative mindset. Playing this system allows us to attack with our full backs without leaving our Centre halves too exposed. We have some of the best attacking full backs in the world in our squad.

I'm a strong believer that you pick your formation to suit your best players and I think Southgate does this.
We aren't particularly blessed at Centre Back, so going 4 at the back makes sense.
If we are going to attack with our full backs (which we should) then we need to offer protection elsewhere so playing 2 holding players makes sense.
We do have an abundance of good forwards and playing the 3 behind a lone striker is the right call to get as many of these on the pitch as possible.

In summary I think he's got the right system and balance to suit the squad we have. It allows us to get as many of our best players on the pitch as possible and still play with balance. I have been critical of his selection at times, particularly leaving Foden out, but at the end of the day no matter what team he picks, there are going to be 2 or 3 attacking players on the bench that you could make a case for. We are lucky where we are in a position like that. I'm happy to hold my hands up and say that Southgate has proven me wrong quite a few times.

GS is doing an excellent job. Yes we have a talented group of players but he has got them playing well together, the results on the pitch prove it. We have over achieved in both of the last 2 major tournaments and now Southgate is becoming a victim of his own success. The expectation going into this tournament his grown. Yes, we could have beaten Croatia and we could have beaten Italy but the reality is, before either of those tournaments, nobody expected us to qualify for Semi Finals or Final. Both tournaments were massive improvements on what we had seen in the previous 20 years and provided some great successes.

In the present moment, we have qualified through the group stage with no frights. Another task that other previous managers have struggled with. I fully expect us to beat Senegal with no issues and then whatever happens after that happens but I have every confidence that Southgate will pick a team capable of winning and will have the players in the right frame of mind. History tells me he can do it.
 
Laughing said:
Your last sentence says everything. Contenders again and consistently so.
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Up until the failed qualification for Euro 2008, we went into World Cups and Euro's thinking we had a genuine chance to win it - the hype for 02, 04 and 06 was genuine. From 2008 to 2016 we failed miserably, and the expectation reduced to nothing. Southgate picked that following out worst showing in a while in 2016 back to where we believe on our day, we could do it. That is progress and should be applauded, we all want more but so does every nation. At least it now feels that we could and maybe could have already under Gareth
 
Bernieslavenschin said:
I tried to make a similar point myself earlier. The criticism of Southgate doesn't come from a place of wishing ill of the team or the manager. It's more an attempt to examine why we didn't progress or win in the last two tournaments (as good as it was we got as far as it did in the first place), and to express concerns prior to what's going to be a really tough knockout stage.

As for measures of greatness, I won't personally be attending any open bus parade/airport greeting unless we win the thing- in which case I'll be 10 cans deep with the flag on my face.

COME ON ENGLAND!
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That's all I basically was trying to say and people were saying I'm a character trying to bait 🤣🤣🤣.
I like southagte, just don't think he's a great. (Yet)
 
dontheking said:
That's all I basically was trying to say and people were saying I'm a character trying to bait 🤣🤣🤣.
I like southagte, just don't think he's a great. (Yet)
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Lets not rewrite what you said. You said "We got to the final due to a lucky run and in spite of southgate, certainly wasn't because of him. He is a poor manager, we know that fiest hand being boro fans." You were dismissive of him. It's probably what got you the responses you did
 
Laughing said:
Lets not rewrite what you said. You said "We got to the final due to a lucky run and in spite of southgate, certainly wasn't because of him. He is a poor manager, we know that fiest hand being boro fans." You were dismissive of him. It's probably what got you the responses you did
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So because I don't think he's great I'm baiting? Or wrong? It's my opinion, I don't agree with alot of people on here some people talk pure sh!te 247 but I still let them have their opinion.
 
dontheking said:
So because I don't think he's great I'm baiting? Or wrong? It's my opinion, I don't agree with alot of people on here some people talk pure sh!te 247 but I still let them have their opinion.
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That wasn't my point. My point was how you downplayed what you said.

You are entitled to an opinion, of course. Doesn't mean it has any value.

We all talk ***** on here from time to time and we get called out for it too.
 
Southgate does have his flaws but it can't be denied he has got results at big tournaments. I always feel he will fail at the big moments but that comes from watching his boro team for 3+ seasons. Had to laugh at today's Gazette piece, bigging Carrick up by saying he is no Southgate and referring to GS as, 'the former Aston Villa defender'. Technically correct but still...
 
BoroMart said:
and if that isn't what happens then you are going to give credit, or will you still look for something to complain about?
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Just to show I just don't complain about things for the sake of complaining or am anti-Southgate I thought I would just pop back on here and give my congratulations to GS and the team last night.

We started slowly but looked very convincing and really put them to bed. Great goals (from open play) and a clean sheet with some good saves by Pickford.

I have hope going into the France game now - I think we can beat them. We just need to make sure we start form he whistle and keep a close eye on Mbappe early doors.

2-1 England for me (y)
 
I'll second that sentiment.
I thought we'd progress and would've been disappointed if we hadn't, overall I was impressed with a performance that outdid what I'd traditionally expect from England, and I do think in previous tournaments we'd have made that game a lot harder.

It's fine margins as someone else said on another thread RE their chance at 30 mins but that's the nature of this type of football.

I do think there's something in the team dynamic that Southgate's created. You can see that the players seem to enjoy playing for England, and with each other. Something that surprisingly I think has been lacking in the past.

I was really impressed with Bellingham and Foden. Bellingham has that youthful confidence that's dangerous for opponents, he looked unstoppable tonight. Foden looked really sharp in tight areas, he moves the ball quickly which I think at times we're guilty of not doing, and for me he's done enough to justify being kept in the 11. He always looks like he's just happy to be on the pitch which I find refreshing,

I was also really impressed with Henderson. It's a given that when he plays he'll be vocal and he'll put effort in and I think he doesn't get enough praise for that, as basic as it sounds. He never stops running, he constantly chases down defenders and keeps the pressure up, and I think he's a good influence on the rest of the team. I've been critical of his inclusion in the past, but thought he played really well last night.

France will be a real test, Walker for me looks suspect (I don't think he ever has been that strong defensively), and it does look like we have a mistake in us under pressure. But we have real talent in this team, I'd give us a chance against anyone in this tournament, and I will be hoping and backing this team to come through it.

COE
 
Southgate got the big calls right again. Whatever happens next week a minimum of 1/4, semi and final is far and above a high level of consistency that any england manager has acheieved. When you consider where we were before his spell in charge, then it shows the massive strides Southgate has made with the england team.

I read that England had won 6 knockout stage games in tournaments from 1968 through to 2016, that's 48 years. Southgate has won 6 in 4 years.
 
BoroMart said:
Southgate got the big calls right again. Whatever happens next week a minimum of 1/4, semi and final is far and above a high level of consistency that any england manager has acheieved. When you consider where we were before his spell in charge, then it shows the massive strides Southgate has made with the england team.

I read that England had won 6 knockout stage games in tournaments from 1968 through to 2016, that's 48 years. Southgate has won 6 in 4 years.
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Aye, he’s doing a phenomenal job.
 
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