David Mitchell on the Pub Garden Smoking Ban

Priv said:
why do smokers constantly feel the need to compare their stinking habit to drinking.

There are thousands of places you aren’t allowed to drink including many outdoor public open spaces. Most parks for instance. Yet you don’t get drinkers throwing whatabouttery at the smokers to try and justify their filthy habit. You also don’t see drinkers throwing empty bottles out of their car windows every 10 mins like stinking smokers do with their fag butts.

Just to clarify I rarely drink, but the whatabouttery on this thread from smokers is borderline laughable, people who mock and deride political whatabouttery are hard at it defending smoking on this thread. Im quite disappointed in several posters that I held in far higher regard than I do currently.
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If you rarely drink what impact does people smoking actually have on you?

I'm a non-smoker by the way.
 
SuedeDenimSecretPolice said:
If you rarely drink what impact does people smoking actually have on you?

I'm a non-smoker by the way.
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Because I like to to take my kids to the pub for lunch / dinner on a sunny day and like to sit outside, the wife might have a cocktail, I will usually be driving so not drinking but theirs always some selfish chunt sat nearby lighting up. Usually sat near their own kids.

I wish the ones with larger beer gardens would divide outdoor areas family at one side, non family / smoking at the other. With a decent gap inbetween.
 
Priv said:
There are thousands of places you aren’t allowed to drink including many outdoor public open spaces. Most parks for instance. Yet you don’t get drinkers throwing whatabouttery at the smokers to try and justify their filthy habit. You also don’t see drinkers throwing empty bottles out of their car windows every 10 mins like stinking smokers do with their fag butts.
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I see drinkers in my local park every time I go in there.
I see drinks cans and bottles lying in the streets every time I walk into town.
I see p!ss stained alcoholics littering the streets and sitting outside restaurants.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
I see drinkers in my local park every time I go in there.
I see drinks cans and bottles lying in the streets every time I walk into town.
I see p!ss stained alcoholics littering the streets and sitting outside restaurants.
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This is exactly what I mean, it seems the only way you can justify your own disgusting habit is to moan about other people’s disgusting habits rather than accept their own is a stinky antisocial habit.
 
Nano said:
I don't think it's just about nannying. Pub beer gardens aren't just for people drinking and smoking. Lots of pubs are restaurants as much as they are pubs these days and people go there to eat, and take kids, and the stink of smoke and vapes isn't pleasant when you want to eat.
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That's true, I hate going in beer gardens, because it's like being in a crack den

I don't want to stop them vaping and smoking, but just not around other people. I'm not sure what the answer is though
 
Priv said:
This is exactly what I mean, it seems the only way you can justify your own disgusting habit is to moan about other people’s disgusting habits rather than accept their own is a stinky antisocial habit.
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My point is that drinkers are really in no position to use whataboutery against smokers.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
I see drinkers in my local park every time I go in there.
I see drinks cans and bottles lying in the streets every time I walk into town.
I see p!ss stained alcoholics littering the streets and sitting outside restaurants.
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What I take from this is that it is the anti-social aspect of drinkers which you object to, not the act of drinking itself. The thing is that for the vast majority of people their behaviour is not anti-social when they are drinking. You can have a drink in a park without being a d*ck. Littering is already illegal whether it is a drinks bottle, a cigarette butt or a packet of crisps. Alcoholics, I presume you mean the homeless, we can fully agree are a problem and should be given help so they aren't relying on cheap alcohol and drugs to get them through the day.

The difference with smokers is that is is impossible for them to not be anti-social because smoking is anti-social. If we sit on tables next to each other in a pub beer garden, as a non-smoker you wouldn't know I was there but I would be forced to smell and inhale your smoke. The only way you can smoke and it not be anti-social is for you to do it in a designated smoking area away from other people. I don't see how there is any justification for anti-social behaviour being permitted and really the "we've always been allowed so it should continue" is a non-argument.

BoroMart said:
That's true, I hate going in beer gardens, because it's like being in a crack den

I don't want to stop them vaping and smoking, but just not around other people. I'm not sure what the answer is though
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Fairly straight forward solution is to extend the beer garden to be included as a place of work like the inside. Smokers are free to go outside and smoke as they currently are when they are indoors. Outside just no longer means "doesn't have a roof". There are other countries that already have similar rules. I'd also add a rule about distance from a doorway so we aren't forced to walk through smoke to get in/out of buildings.
 
Nano said:
What I take from this is that it is the anti-social aspect of drinkers which you object to, not the act of drinking itself. The thing is that for the vast majority of people their behaviour is not anti-social when they are drinking. You can have a drink in a park without being a d*ck. Littering is already illegal whether it is a drinks bottle, a cigarette butt or a packet of crisps. Alcoholics, I presume you mean the homeless, we can fully agree are a problem and should be given help so they aren't relying on cheap alcohol and drugs to get them through the day.

The difference with smokers is that is is impossible for them to not be anti-social because smoking is anti-social. If we sit on tables next to each other in a pub beer garden, as a non-smoker you wouldn't know I was there but I would be forced to smell and inhale your smoke. The only way you can smoke and it not be anti-social is for you to do it in a designated smoking area away from other people. I don't see how there is any justification for anti-social behaviour being permitted and really the "we've always been allowed so it should continue" is a non-argument.


Fairly straight forward solution is to extend the beer garden to be included as a place of work like the inside. Smokers are free to go outside and smoke as they currently are when they are indoors. Outside just no longer means "doesn't have a roof". There are other countries that already have similar rules. I'd also add a rule about distance from a doorway so we aren't forced to walk through smoke to get in/out of buildings.
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Far better put than I could 👍
 
Priv said:
Because I like to to take my kids to the pub for lunch / dinner on a sunny day and like to sit outside, the wife might have a cocktail, I will usually be driving so not drinking but theirs always some selfish chunt sat nearby lighting up. Usually sat near their own kids.

I wish the ones with larger beer gardens would divide outdoor areas family at one side, non family / smoking at the other. With a decent gap inbetween.
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I don't think it needs legislation. Its should be up to the landlord of the premises. Then people who feel as strongly about it as you can take their money elsewhere. If their is enough support then landlords will quickly follow the money.
 
Nano said:
What I take from this is that it is the anti-social aspect of drinkers which you object to, not the act of drinking itself.
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I drink but don't smoke but yes, it's the anti-social aspect of drinkers and smokers that I object to and I don't think that the former group can claim the moral high ground over the latter.
 
Nano said:
Fairly straight forward solution is to extend the beer garden to be included as a place of work like the inside. Smokers are free to go outside and smoke as they currently are when they are indoors. Outside just no longer means "doesn't have a roof". There are other countries that already have similar rules. I'd also add a rule about distance from a doorway so we aren't forced to walk through smoke to get in/out of buildings.
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Maybe beer gardens should have a 'smokers shed' at the bottom. Just let the vapers and smokers into that.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
I drink but don't smoke but yes, it's the anti-social aspect of drinkers and smokers that I object to and I don't think that the former group can claim the moral high ground over the latter.
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I'm not a smoker, I drink but not "anti-socially". My drinking doesn't involve littering, smashing things up, insulting people, fighting, shouting loudly at 3am. My drinking impacts nobody but me. That cannot be said for vapers and smokers that stand in the doorways of pubs, or walk around shopping centres having a quick vape, or sit next to you at football etc.
 
BoroMart said:
I'm not a smoker, I drink but not "anti-socially". My drinking doesn't involve littering, smashing things up, insulting people, fighting, shouting loudly at 3am. My drinking impacts nobody but me. That cannot be said for vapers and smokers that stand in the doorways of pubs, or walk around shopping centres having a quick vape, or sit next to you at football etc.
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Yes but you're comparing responsible drinkers with antisocial smokers.
 
Depending on how breezy it is a single smoker can ruin multiple people's dining experience. A vaper with their rancid vape set on steam train mode can take out the whole beer garden quicker than a torrential downpour.
 
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