England are through to the round of 16.

Uwefuchs said:
Same point when people keep talking about the goals scored column in big tournaments. We put about 6 past Panama in the last World Cup who looked like a Sunday league team.
Click to expand...
*cough* Costa Rica *cough* Iceland *cough* Morrocco.

This is what I mean when I say if we don't score at least 3 every game Southgate is vilified, if we do then it was poor opposition. You can't slate Southgate for having his team destroy Panama, when Robson Hodgson and other managers have failed to beat "minnows"
 
BoroMart said:
*cough* Costa Rica *cough* Iceland *cough* Morrocco.

This is what I mean when I say if we don't score at least 3 every game Southgate is vilified, if we do then it was poor opposition. You can't slate Southgate for having his team destroy Panama, when Robson Hodgson and other managers have failed to beat "minnows"
Click to expand...
Defensive frailties were what ultimately did for Roy Hodgson, in both World Cup 2014 and Euros 2016 and to a lesser extent Sven in 2002, 2004 & 2006. I think Gareth has decided that he needs two holding midfielders to cover our shaky centre backs and attacking full backs, problem against Scotland was that our full backs seemed to offer little creatively. I would prefer it if he went with a back three, but maybe he's not sure about that without Maguire?
 
Otto42 said:
Defensive frailties were what ultimately did for Roy Hodgson, in both World Cup 2014 and Euros 2016 and to a lesser extent Sven in 2002, 2004 & 2006. I think Gareth has decided that he needs two holding midfielders to cover our shaky centre backs and attacking full backs, problem against Scotland was that our full backs seemed to offer little creatively. I would prefer it if he went with a back three, but maybe he's not sure about that without Maguire?
Click to expand...
I think with Maguire being fit it will allow us to open up a little more and have a proper 8 and a CDM instead of 2 CDMs
 
This tournament is ludicrous when we can say we are through with 6 games still to play. A cough and a fart and you get through. Remember when a Cup compitition was a knock out tournament not weighted for the big boys.
 
BoroMart said:
*cough* Costa Rica *cough* Iceland *cough* Morrocco.

This is what I mean when I say if we don't score at least 3 every game Southgate is vilified, if we do then it was poor opposition. You can't slate Southgate for having his team destroy Panama, when Robson Hodgson and other managers have failed to beat "minnows"
Click to expand...

You are bringing Roy Hodgson into the equation, I never mentioned him. His performance in the euros was a pretty low bar.

I'm talking mainly about the comparison with the likes of Alf Ramsey and Bobby Robson. The Panama game is important because they are the worst team I've seen in a major tournament, they literally didn't know how to defend set pieces it was school boy stuff.

Take those 6 goals out of the equation and Southgate wouldn't be getting talked about as being an attacking manager with great stats. The Panama game was an outlier.
 
Uwefuchs said:
You are bringing Roy Hodgson into the equation, I never mentioned him. His performance in the euros was a pretty low bar.

I'm talking mainly about the comparison with the likes of Alf Ramsey and Bobby Robson. The Panama game is important because they are the worst team I've seen in a major tournament, they literally didn't know how to defend set pieces it was school boy stuff.

Take those 6 goals out of the equation and Southgate wouldn't be getting talked about as being an attacking manager with great stats. The Panama game was an outlier.
Click to expand...
Oh dear. You are saying after 4 years in charge of England that 1 game can skew the stats that much, really?

What about his win percentage what about the average age of his players just as 2 examples.

Take the Southgate blinkers off man and enjoy the tournament.
 
Uwefuchs said:
You are bringing Roy Hodgson into the equation, I never mentioned him. His performance in the euros was a pretty low bar.

I'm talking mainly about the comparison with the likes of Alf Ramsey and Bobby Robson. The Panama game is important because they are the worst team I've seen in a major tournament, they literally didn't know how to defend set pieces it was school boy stuff.

Take those 6 goals out of the equation and Southgate wouldn't be getting talked about as being an attacking manager with great stats. The Panama game was an outlier.
Click to expand...
And the 2 against Tunisia and Sweden ;)
 
Uwefuchs said:
You are bringing Roy Hodgson into the equation, I never mentioned him. His performance in the euros was a pretty low bar.

I'm talking mainly about the comparison with the likes of Alf Ramsey and Bobby Robson. The Panama game is important because they are the worst team I've seen in a major tournament, they literally didn't know how to defend set pieces it was school boy stuff.

Take those 6 goals out of the equation and Southgate wouldn't be getting talked about as being an attacking manager with great stats. The Panama game was an outlier.
Click to expand...
Hodgson was the manager he took over from, so it's important to gauge southgate against his immediate predecessor.

Ramsey, had a great record despite failing to qualify for a euros

Robson had a good record, but had plenty of failures.

Uwe, that's your view on Pan, but there are equally valid views on Egypt and Morocco that Robson faced. They barely had any players playing in major european teams.

Why take those 6 goals out? That's changing the reality to fit a prejudiced view. Those 6 goals against a poor set of players is better than Robsons 0 goals against a poor set of Morocco players.

As for Southgate's credentials as an attacking manager. He isn't a 'vindaloo' football manager ("we're gonna score one more than you") and never claimed to be. But his goal output in competitive football is strong.

San Marino 5
Iceland 4
Kosovo 4
Montanegro 7
Bulgaria 6
Kosovo 5
Bulgaria 4
Montanegro 5
Czech 5
Panoma 6
Malta 4

Of course the argument will be, yeah but these are poor sides, of course we score lots of goals vs poor sides, scoring 5 against germany or france is a once in a generation thing.
 
Last edited:
Laughing said:
Oh dear. You are saying after 4 years in charge of England that 1 game can skew the stats that much, really?

What about his win percentage what about the average age of his players just as 2 examples.

Take the Southgate blinkers off man and enjoy the tournament.
Click to expand...

Well since the whole thread has been talking about tournament stats then I thought everyone would realise that I was talking about his tournament record.

So on that note the Panama game does skew his TOURNAMENT stats.

You seem to be indicating that I'm tearing Southgate apart and I'm not.
 
BoroMart said:
Hodgson was the manager he took over from, so it's important to gauge southgate against his immediate predecessor.

Ramsey, had a great record despite failing to qualify for a euros

Robson had a good record, but had plenty of failures.

Uwe, that's your view on CR, but there are equally valid views on Egypt and Morocco that Robson faced. They barely had any players playing in major european teams.

Why take those 6 goals out? That's changing the reality to fit a prejudiced view. Those 6 goals against a poor set of players is better than Robsons 0 goals against a poor set of Morocco players.

As for Southgate's credentials as an attacking manager. He isn't a 'vindaloo' football manager ("we're gonna score one more than you") and never claimed to be. But his goal output in competitive football is strong.

San Marino 5
Iceland 4
Kosovo 4
Montanegro 7
Bulgaria 6
Kosovo 5
Bulgaria 4
Montanegro 5
Czech 5
Panoma 6
Malta 4

Of course the argument will be, yeah but these are poor sides, of course we score lots of goals vs poor sides, scoring 5 against germany or france is a once in a generation thing.
Click to expand...

Yeah his qualifying record is good, as was Capello's and Hodgson's.

For the record I think we were pretty decent to watch in the 2018 world cup and I enjoyed the games, hopefully that should shut everyone up who thinks I've got some sort of agenda against him. In this tournament I think we've been very cautious and safety first so I'm not massively enjoying the games which is my right to feel that way.

There's people on this thread who will defend Southgate to the hilt which is fine but let's not pretend that his tactics in this tournament haven't been defence minded, even the commentator last night said that Southgate and Holland have expressed that they think being defence minded is the best way to win a tournament.

Thats great if it works, if it doesn't then he's going to get criticised like Karanka did here.

As for the comparisons with the likes of Alf Ramsey and Bobby Robson, I'm not really sure what the point of the comparison is. Are people saying he's a better manager?
 
BoroMart said:
Are all the wet pant brigade going to calm down now and change their TENA pants now?

Southgate has qualified from both world cup and euros group stages. Something that Robson and Hodgson both failed to do.
Click to expand...
Bit harsh on Robson that - only 8 teams qualified for the finals in '88.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Well since the whole thread has been talking about tournament stats then I thought everyone would realise that I was talking about his tournament record.
Click to expand...
tournament stats.....he was won more competitive games than any england manager ever, he is third for finals competition wins despite playing in less tournaments.
 
Uwefuchs said:
As for the comparisons with the likes of Alf Ramsey and Bobby Robson, I'm not really sure what the point of the comparison is. Are people saying he's a better manager?
Click to expand...
He has been more successful than Robson at England level so far.
 
Rofesleg said:
Bit harsh on Robson that - only 8 teams qualified for the finals in '88.
Click to expand...
Yes and he came bottom of a group with Ireland and an unfancied Russia, Holland were decent mind. Russia went on to make the final but were a very average side.

I was actually referring to Euro 84, England failed to qualify from a group containing the giants of Luxembourg, Hungary, Greece, and Denmark. At Wembley we lost to Denmark and drew 0-0 with Greece, away we drew with Denmark.

This was Denmark before the Laudrups as well, Robson failed here something Southgate has never done
 
Last edited:
asredastheycome said:
This tournament is ludicrous when we can say we are through with 6 games still to play. A cough and a fart and you get through. Remember when a Cup compitition was a knock out tournament not weighted for the big boys.
Click to expand...
Mexico 86, Italia 90 and USA 94 were all the exact same format.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top