England V Italy

Not many people would have had Wales with 2 wins from their first two games before this tournament started. Bad times.
 
As a kiwi supporting the All Blacks always have a soft spot for Wales. Always great trips to Cardiff. Friendly fans, magnanimous in defeat (as is the norm when we play them). Love their passion for the game. They are also great when the supporters travel. Not like their football supporters.
 
England were damned either way today. Play outstanding and score 60 points and the obvious analysis is "it's only Italy" and there's truth in that. As it was, they were patchy again, but at least had some aggression in defence and more of the ball. The return of Sinckler and Mako Vunipola was always going to make a difference.

At the moment there's too many players not quite at it. Billy Vunipola looks way off, same with Farrell and Ben Youngs. If anything, Dan Robson has to start against Wales in two weeks.
 
TeaCider said:
Wales are going to win, that's a shame.

Ireland beat France tomorrow and everyone has lost already, which keeps it open.

Got no confidence in England after the Scotland performance, they stumbled over the line last year too.
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I must have missed Wales losing.
 
bear66 said:
But they'll be winning at 18:30 on 27th February.
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Who knows.

The real answer is I obviously got muddled up with Wales winning late, and still thought they'd lost too.

Was still in a rage about the Boro match at the time, so I wasn't properly paying attention to what I was writing.
 
TeaCider said:
Who knows.

The real answer is I obviously got muddled up with Wales winning late, and still thought they'd lost too.

Was still in a rage about the Boro match at the time, so I wasn't properly paying attention to what I was writing.
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The Wales win, with passion and quality, took my mind off the rubbish I'd watched just before.
 
Nero said:
England were damned either way today. Play outstanding and score 60 points and the obvious analysis is "it's only Italy" and there's truth in that. As it was, they were patchy again, but at least had some aggression in defence and more of the ball. The return of Sinckler and Mako Vunipola was always going to make a difference.

At the moment there's too many players not quite at it. Billy Vunipola looks way off, same with Farrell and Ben Youngs. If anything, Dan Robson has to start against Wales in two weeks.
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Not sure what wrong with Youngs but the saracens players are definitely struggling from not playing games. Except Itoje who is just exceptional anyway!
 
SmallTown said:
Not sure what wrong with Youngs but the saracens players are definitely struggling from not playing games. Except Itoje who is just exceptional anyway!
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Definitely. The Saracens lads are not benefitting from rest as was the hope. They need games to gain sharpness.

Itoje is a different level mind. He's probably the best second row in the world right now. Although the Springbok players will argue otherwise.
 
Nero said:
Definitely. The Saracens lads are not benefitting from rest as was the hope. They need games to gain sharpness.

Itoje is a different level mind. He's probably the best second row in the world right now. Although the Springbok players will argue otherwise.
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Itoje is something else, I just love watching him. You feel like he could literally do anything you asked him to on a pitch.
 
Jostler said:
It’s ended up being pretty routine for England in the end, but cracks once again papered over.

Re Italy, I don’t want to lose them and I’m actually pro bringing Georgia in as I think that’s the only way their standard improves. I want to see more competitive nations in world rugby and giving more teams the chance to play the tier 1 nations is the only way we will get there
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But will they get there as we’ve seen this was cited about Italy but are they really any better than they were. Or is it just a fact that rugby has the core nations and the rest just make up the numbers.

I get that Japan and to a degree argentina are the outliers but realistically they are still a long way off being at the level on a continuous basis.

as rugby esp at international level is just too hard to bridge the gap and the demoralising score lines do they really benefit the other nations.
 
zorro_mfc said:
But will they get there as we’ve seen this was cited about Italy but are they really any better than they were. Or is it just a fact that rugby has the core nations and the rest just make up the numbers.

I get that Japan and to a degree argentina are the outliers but realistically they are still a long way off being at the level on a continuous basis.

as rugby esp at international level is just too hard to bridge the gap and the demoralising score lines do they really benefit the other nations.
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There is a B league. Scotland was more B league standard for 5 years, but they've come back. Japan and a revitalised France shows how important good coaches are.
 
zorro_mfc said:
But will they get there as we’ve seen this was cited about Italy but are they really any better than they were. Or is it just a fact that rugby has the core nations and the rest just make up the numbers.

I get that Japan and to a degree argentina are the outliers but realistically they are still a long way off being at the level on a continuous basis.

as rugby esp at international level is just too hard to bridge the gap and the demoralising score lines do they really benefit the other nations.
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I think I’m now favouring the approach ST has suggested with 2 tiers and a relegation / promotion format.

It would give Italy a kick up the bum rather than just the threat of the obligatory wooden spoon and would give Georgia the motivation to push on.

I appreciate the level at the top is so hard, massively dependent on funding and it isn’t going to reap rewards short term, but if we don’t give teams the incentives to improve apart from every 4 years at a WC, the sport is never going to grow.
 
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