English and Welsh morons fighting in Tenerife.

There's plenty of fan violence in Germany and from German fans.

Nice played Köln in the Conference League two months ago and had to be postponed because of fan violence, West Ham fans were attacked by Frankfurt fans earlier in the year, Frankfurt fans then attacked Marseille fans in a later match, likewise German fans attacked England fans when we last played them in September.


Most matches in England go ahead with zero bother at all too, it's the ones that don't which get the headlines.

It's a problem throughout the sport, not just in the UK.
Yeah, not totally whitewashing it, just commenting on what I saw.

Interesting that your examples all relate to fans going abroad, which is a whole different dynamic.

That said, I saw peaceful (well, noisy) boozed up interactions between opposing fans that I can't imagine going off without bother here.
 
Disagree with your last point - it's a source of endless frustration how we deal with anti-social behaviour and (the minority) idiots in this country, and not just relating to football.

Our governments have traditionally been much more likely to punish everyone over the actions of a few (see Beer in grounds for example) rather than other more modern, progressive states where you actually deal with the minority but not at the expense of the majority. It's part of the divide and rule strategy in my opinion and is perfectly illustrated by the recent ch4 documentary on Italia 90, where the British media handily painted ALL England fans in Italy as intent on causing hell etc, thus by associated painting all football fans with the same brush.
Yeah, "what we deserve" may be a bit simplistic - and I don't know the best answer - but it's hard to feel hard done by when you see how an idiotic minority behave again and again.
 
Yeah, not totally whitewashing it, just commenting on what I saw.

Interesting that your examples all relate to fans going abroad, which is a whole different dynamic.

That said, I saw peaceful (well, noisy) boozed up interactions between opposing fans that I can't imagine going off without bother here.

There seem to have been far fewer reported incidents domestically since the pandemic, so they may have taken appropriate measures to reduce it, but there are plenty of articles highlighting fan violence in the Bundesliga from 2019 and before.

There's definitely a minority causing issues in British football, so I'm not trying to deflect from that, it needs addressing.

From what I've seen reported in recent years, it actually seems like Ligue 1 is the place with most issues, some of the fan violence in France has been shocking.
 
On segregation, Twickenham is an interesting place. Loads of integration of fans , and beers at seats but still large swathes of fans singing Swing Low. We had about 40 Italians behind us in good voice and great form but all friendly and good humoured. The fan parks outside are also superb. I suppose they do the thuggery on the pitch!
Agree with this. When there were four “London” clubs. There used to be a double header to start the season. Fans of Wasps, Sarries, Quins and Irish all mingling together watching a couple of matches and drinking all day.

I’ve only been in one aggro situation at the rugby watching England v New Zealand at a bar in Singapore. Bar was pretty much split between antipodeans and English. When we had a last minute, match winning try disallowed the arguments got really heated! But not past the shoving phase
 
There's plenty of fan violence in Germany and from German fans.

Nice played Köln in the Conference League two months ago and had to be postponed because of fan violence, West Ham fans were attacked by Frankfurt fans earlier in the year, Frankfurt fans then attacked Rangers and Marseille fans in later matches.

Likewise German fans attacked England fans when we last played them in September.


Most matches in England go ahead with zero bother at all too, it's the ones that don't which get the headlines.

It's a problem throughout the sport, not just in the UK.
It definitely a lot worse in the U.K. than Germany
 
Not just the “fighting”, but even the folk who go to away matches and spend the entire 90 minutes staring longingly at the nearest group of home fans, mouthing stuff aggressively at them that they obviously wouldn’t say without barriers, just boggle my mind to be honest.

I remember a couple of years ago at QPR a youngish fan (there with his mam) leaped out of his seat to do a vvanker sign at the home fans when we scored, he wasn’t celebrating the goal at all, it was as if the only thing he remotely cared about was the opportunity to antagonise. I was weirdly almost glad that our goal was then disallowed and he looked daft when they all did it back to him.

It’s not a class thing either. A large proportion of these blokes involved in this stuff (especially with England) are fairly well off flabby 50 year olds who work in well respected jobs.

Not that I’m generalising. 😁
Seem to remember a Euros - but could have been France World Cup - where there was the usual d1ckheads "supporting" England. There was footage of your typical bare chested "fan" with his England flag draped over his shoulder chucking whatever street furniture he could find at somebody else. Anyhow about 10 of them got arrested and it turned out that amongst them was a university lecturer, a senior police officer, a solictor, a GP, and Greg Stanley - who was CEO for Focus DIY at the time........ and unfortunately for me.... my boss! W⚓.
 
Agree with this. When there were four “London” clubs. There used to be a double header to start the season. Fans of Wasps, Sarries, Quins and Irish all mingling together watching a couple of matches and drinking all day.

I’ve only been in one aggro situation at the rugby watching England v New Zealand at a bar in Singapore. Bar was pretty much split between antipodeans and English. When we had a last minute, match winning try disallowed the arguments got really heated! But not past the shoving phase

Similar in Rugby League with the Magic Weekends - lots of integration and I have never seen any bother (even when I accidentally threw 2 pints of beer over a load of Leeds fans when I fell down the stairs!)
 
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