stephen321
New member
Name one decent Corbyn choice Just one..
Ex-MP Jared O’Mara made up expenses claims to fund cocaine habit?
- Thread starter r00fie1
- Start date
Blf
Well-known member
He liked Yorkshire tea.
r00fie1
Well-known member
Is "Palestine" a problem for you then?
Lefty
Well-known member
I'm quite happy to acknowledge other mistakes in the selection of candidates, be that on the centre Left, right of the party or the different nefarious reasons some Conservative MP's get selected.
In this particular case however, O'Mara was selected against a backdrop of the internal power struggle within the Labour Party since Corbyn's election in 2015. This was particularly true within the PLP and O'Mara was a Corbyn supporter, hence LOTO and Momentum were keen to get another Corbynite on board. It was a snap election in 2017, so it was all a rush, never-the-less a LOTO and Momentum faction more concerned with power FOR Labour than power WITHIN Labour would have performed more due diligence, dug into his CV and background properly and above all consulted the local constituency properly. He wasn't a kid when he posted some of those racist and misogynistic posts on social media.
It's WAY PAST time the far left acknowledge the mistakes and inadequacies of their own side. I like Corbyn as a bloke, I liked many of his policies. I was disgusted at the time in 2015 that the PLP didn't get behind him and give it a go. Ultimately though, he was not up to the job. He wasn't a leader and those he surrounded himself with, who he trusted, embattled as they were, just were not competent and skillful enough to run a Party or a Government either. And they all fell out with each other ffs. Perfect is the enemy of good.
Those Labour MP's who opposed Corbyn in 2015, who wouldn't work with him, I was angry with for doing that. But you've got to say they knew him and they were proved absolutely right. In 2017 the country didn't know him, Remainers lent him their vote, the young were filled with hope and the excellent Manifesto, written by communist Andrew Fisher (who eventually himself quit over the farcical competence and leadership in Corbyns LOTO circle) was a work of necessary compromise across the breadth of the Party by a weak Left. By 2019 people had seen a lot more of Corbyn, Milne & co, judged them, and delivered their verdict.
A fair criticism and some portion of the blame can legitimately be leveled at those on the Right of the Party making it harder not easier for Corbyn's cadre, but ultimately it was them in power and it was their keenness to put their internal party political struggle ahead of good practice on behalf of the Party and country as a whole that allowed this poor selection of O'Mara.
Repeatedly on here I try to point out that bad decisions are usually made do to bad decision making process. If you've ever noticed my posts on Brexit or Iraq it's a common theme I return to. Most people who voted for Brexit didn't have different values to me, they just followed a poor process. 99% of our poor decisions are about process. It's about ruling bias out. If a preference has to come into the decision, if the values matter, their place is at the end of the process, not fromthe start where it will cloud the process from the beginning and therefore throughout. When process and good practice are ignored because, you know, he's one of us, you end up in current Tory territory, don't you think?
Just review this thread, lads.
It's about an unfit MP.
That he was unfit could/would have been uncovered if a better process had been followed.
The regime in charge are ultimately responsible.
I criticise said regime and offer an underlying reason behind it.
What do you do?
Accept this criticism has validity?
or
Make no acknowledgement of this valid criticism but, let's see
...talk about Russian Oligarchs funding of the Conservative Party = no fault in appointing O'Mara?
...cite Starmer supporting his Leader on a presumably agreed shadow cabinet stance on NATO = no fault in appointing O'Mara?
...talk about payments of Labour MP's on the right by the Israeli embassy to make up false allegations = no fault in appointing O'Mara?
...compare me to Goebbels.
Once again the Left loves to fight itself, while those in it deny they could ever be wrong. It's why the Right get into power so often and I'm losing patience at that.
In this particular case however, O'Mara was selected against a backdrop of the internal power struggle within the Labour Party since Corbyn's election in 2015. This was particularly true within the PLP and O'Mara was a Corbyn supporter, hence LOTO and Momentum were keen to get another Corbynite on board. It was a snap election in 2017, so it was all a rush, never-the-less a LOTO and Momentum faction more concerned with power FOR Labour than power WITHIN Labour would have performed more due diligence, dug into his CV and background properly and above all consulted the local constituency properly. He wasn't a kid when he posted some of those racist and misogynistic posts on social media.
It's WAY PAST time the far left acknowledge the mistakes and inadequacies of their own side. I like Corbyn as a bloke, I liked many of his policies. I was disgusted at the time in 2015 that the PLP didn't get behind him and give it a go. Ultimately though, he was not up to the job. He wasn't a leader and those he surrounded himself with, who he trusted, embattled as they were, just were not competent and skillful enough to run a Party or a Government either. And they all fell out with each other ffs. Perfect is the enemy of good.
Those Labour MP's who opposed Corbyn in 2015, who wouldn't work with him, I was angry with for doing that. But you've got to say they knew him and they were proved absolutely right. In 2017 the country didn't know him, Remainers lent him their vote, the young were filled with hope and the excellent Manifesto, written by communist Andrew Fisher (who eventually himself quit over the farcical competence and leadership in Corbyns LOTO circle) was a work of necessary compromise across the breadth of the Party by a weak Left. By 2019 people had seen a lot more of Corbyn, Milne & co, judged them, and delivered their verdict.
A fair criticism and some portion of the blame can legitimately be leveled at those on the Right of the Party making it harder not easier for Corbyn's cadre, but ultimately it was them in power and it was their keenness to put their internal party political struggle ahead of good practice on behalf of the Party and country as a whole that allowed this poor selection of O'Mara.
Repeatedly on here I try to point out that bad decisions are usually made do to bad decision making process. If you've ever noticed my posts on Brexit or Iraq it's a common theme I return to. Most people who voted for Brexit didn't have different values to me, they just followed a poor process. 99% of our poor decisions are about process. It's about ruling bias out. If a preference has to come into the decision, if the values matter, their place is at the end of the process, not fromthe start where it will cloud the process from the beginning and therefore throughout. When process and good practice are ignored because, you know, he's one of us, you end up in current Tory territory, don't you think?
Just review this thread, lads.
It's about an unfit MP.
That he was unfit could/would have been uncovered if a better process had been followed.
The regime in charge are ultimately responsible.
I criticise said regime and offer an underlying reason behind it.
What do you do?
Accept this criticism has validity?
or
Make no acknowledgement of this valid criticism but, let's see
...talk about Russian Oligarchs funding of the Conservative Party = no fault in appointing O'Mara?
...cite Starmer supporting his Leader on a presumably agreed shadow cabinet stance on NATO = no fault in appointing O'Mara?
...talk about payments of Labour MP's on the right by the Israeli embassy to make up false allegations = no fault in appointing O'Mara?
...compare me to Goebbels.
Once again the Left loves to fight itself, while those in it deny they could ever be wrong. It's why the Right get into power so often and I'm losing patience at that.
r00fie1
Well-known member
Lets get the facts straight after Sunderland play Fulham in the FA Cup tonight
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
I don't care what colour rosette they have, any evidence if drug taking while being an elected member of Parliament means you're not only committing some kind of criminal offence, you are also open to bribery and corruption.
MP's should all be drug tested regularly and any who fail, removed from being an MP.
MP's should all be drug tested regularly and any who fail, removed from being an MP.
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
Blf
Well-known member
So it was correct then.People will comment more on problems of the government of the day(currently the tories).
How ridiculous of you.
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
stephen321
New member
No not at all But as an Mp representing a city struggling to survive maybe represent his constituents. Just more grandstanding from the far left.
Lefty
Well-known member
I don’t think you can necessarily blame anyone for not finding out a prospective MP has a drug problem, since druggies are notoriously good at hiding these things, though you might if you actually try. It might be that his habit wasn’t there in 2017 and only surfaced after his suspension and the pressure he came under. That I don’t know.
There is much more to his unfitness for being an MP than that though. The loathsome Guido Fawkes dug up some fairly concerning opinions soon after O’Mara was elected, so surely this could have been discovered before, had someone looked. The guy was accused of racism, misogyny, sexual assault and bullying. Not only did staff walk out on him, others also left in support of these staff. Clearly there is a character issue that could have been uncovered if the proper vetting procedure had been followed. It wasn’t. Which is either incompetence as I said, or such was the desire, the need to strengthen the Corbynite faction, that it blinded the need to look. This is what happens when power within the Party is a greater priority than power for the Party.
We see this time and again even on this forum among Corbyn supporters. They would rather hand government to a Party with values and priorities light years away from their own, than see those much nearer to their values triumph because of a perceived betrayal being the main if not only reason their dream perished, completely unable to acknowledge the part their own messiahs deficiencies played.
There is much more to his unfitness for being an MP than that though. The loathsome Guido Fawkes dug up some fairly concerning opinions soon after O’Mara was elected, so surely this could have been discovered before, had someone looked. The guy was accused of racism, misogyny, sexual assault and bullying. Not only did staff walk out on him, others also left in support of these staff. Clearly there is a character issue that could have been uncovered if the proper vetting procedure had been followed. It wasn’t. Which is either incompetence as I said, or such was the desire, the need to strengthen the Corbynite faction, that it blinded the need to look. This is what happens when power within the Party is a greater priority than power for the Party.
We see this time and again even on this forum among Corbyn supporters. They would rather hand government to a Party with values and priorities light years away from their own, than see those much nearer to their values triumph because of a perceived betrayal being the main if not only reason their dream perished, completely unable to acknowledge the part their own messiahs deficiencies played.
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r00fie1
Well-known member
"Grandstanding"? "Far left"?
Apologies, but English is my first language.
I refer you to fellow poster Exiledinboro above, in order to read the accurate acount of Mr O`mara`s "maiden" speech in Parliament.
If you wish to ensure your information is correct and contemporaneous, you will find all transcripts here:
https://hansard.parliament.uk/
To avoid any inaccuracy - here is the link provided by Exiledinboro above :
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2018-07-24/debates/9DF2F3F9-C84E-4556-859A-AE233091A9AD/details
Hope you find the above information of assistance.
Lefty
Well-known member
So the details are O'Mara wasn't a known Corbynite as you suggest, Lefty.
In fact delegates from the union unite, members of the constituency Labour Party of Hallam and Jermey Corby have said that O'Mara was an unknown and in fact Corbyns vote (which he is only allowed 1) was rejected as the party headquarters took the decision of how to select candidates
From O' Mara's resignation statement.
'I stood because I wanted to give my time to support the democratic process and because I was inspired by Jeremy Corbyn and everything he had to say. Particularly about 'Equality and Fairness'.
I voted for him twice, was a member of his group 'Momentum' and practically idolised him.'
This ties in with other reports. He was a Corbynite and known as such. He had Momentum's support.
As for everything else I've stated, regarding this being a decision from those at the top and ignoring best process, here is a piece from Jane Thomas. I've highlighted some particularly pertinent parts.
'Yet again Sheffield Hallam MP, Jared O’Mara, has been in the news following claims of inappropriate behaviour by his former staff. This has led to much speculation, and some misinformation, around what led to his selection. To some degree, the events are now history, but it is vital that the party does not in any way repeat what happened here in Sheffield in May 2017.
As the then chair of Sheffield Hallam Labour, neither myself nor anyone else from the local party had a formal role in the selection process. This is normal in the case of a snap election or a by-election, where Labour’s national executive committee (NEC) takes full control of the selection process.
Nonetheless, it is still expected that either regional office or NEC panel members would discuss the process with the local party, so that local issues and other relevant information can come to light. In this instance, there was insufficient communication with Sheffield Hallam CLP, and Jared O’Mara did not inform us of his intention to stand – the only candidate in this selection that made no contact with the local party.
This is a shame as Jared was known to us, having stood locally a few years before, and we could have been a bit better prepared for what was to follow. As it was, this was one of the last selections made in the whole country so campaigning had already begun but there was nothing in place to support a candidate with a disability.
The details of what took place at the actual selection hearing, when and who was there, matter less than this core principle. The party should be selecting with integrity. If we want to encourage more candidates with disabilities, we have to put in place appropriate support mechanisms. It is not appropriate or fair to throw a candidate in at the deep end (which is what happens with a by-election or snap election) without making an assessment and review of needs. To throw someone like Jared into a general election campaign without taking account of his needs and fragilities was cavalier and highly irresponsible.
In the end, everyone loses – and indeed everyone has lost. Jared has probably had two years of hell. Hallam activists (some of whom have campaigned for 50 years to get a Labour MP) are angry, demotivated or both. Our enthusiastic newer members see their campaigning efforts wasted. Our constituency is deprived of a functioning MP, with casework not being undertaken. And probably a crucial Labour gain is lost for some time.
It did not have to be like this. The party would have received his application and CV but that was not passed on to the local party, which only found out about his intention to stand after he had been selected. This smacks of all the worst bits of parachuting candidates into seats, which was a key feature of the Noughties.
Another snap election looks imminent. A number of us who were on the executive of Sheffield Hallam CLP in 2017 have now written to the NEC and regional party regarding this selection. We have asked that these issues be addressed to avoid repeating serious failures, and that more robust procedures put in place, including local party involvement (even with snap selections). The health and well being of candidates must be at the forefront, and the health and wellbeing of local parties. Sadly both are diminished with this experience.'
Also, it's interesting what the response didn't say.
'In response to this comment piece, a Labour Party spokesperson said: “When Theresa May announced that there would be a snap general election in 2017, the Labour Party had to immediately select 630 parliamentary candidates. There was regular communication between the regional office and Sheffield Hallam CLP during this process.'
Would you agree that, as the Chair of Sheffield Labour at the time, she knows what she is talking about? Now go ahead and disagree with me when I say the process was shambolic. The candidate was imposed on the constituency, she makes that clear. O' Mara was a Corbynite as he makes clear and was known at the time. There was a power struggle within Labour for 2015-17, but by the time the 2017 election came around LOTO was calling most of the official shots at least. What does Occam's razor tell you? If anything I might have been too kind ascribing the incompetence to the power struggle within Labour and at least making a partial excuse apportioning some of the blame to the right. Otherwise it is just sheer unforced incompetence. Either way, it is incompetence (not policy mostly) by the far Left, which is consistently my main gripe on why Corbyn and his gang were unfit for the job and should not be excused from blame. It's so long past time when the far Left should confront this reality.
Lefty
Well-known member
Well, haven't you got the bit between your teeth? If you've got some inside knowledge of the selection meetings where O' Mara was proposed, discussed and selected that show this was an incompetent appointment by the Right of the Party then I'll happily retract. By all means share the minutes.
'I also would like to know how momentum was involved since you’ve repeated it twice O’Mara was backed by momentum?'
https://www.theweek.co.uk/general-election-2017/85501/how-momentum-helped-sway-the-general-election
'Momentum held "mass campaign weekends in critical seats such as Croydon Central, Derby North, Sheffield Hallam, Battersea, Leeds North West, and Brighton Kemptown", the New Statesman reports, and in all of the targeted seats, "Conservative majorities collapsed in the face of energy and enthusiasm channelled into a movement".
'Labour's Jared O'Mara, who beat former deputy prime minister Nick Clegg to become MP for Sheffield Hallam, certainly felt the group played an active part. "The contribution of Momentum members in South Yorkshire and beyond was exemplary," he said. "It was a blessing to have them on board campaigning to get me elected."
It sure seems like they claimed to have backed him and he acknowledged it at the time. Might not be true I suppose. I'm not sure my first thought would be to disregard it though.
'I also would like to know how momentum was involved since you’ve repeated it twice O’Mara was backed by momentum?'
https://www.theweek.co.uk/general-election-2017/85501/how-momentum-helped-sway-the-general-election
'Momentum held "mass campaign weekends in critical seats such as Croydon Central, Derby North, Sheffield Hallam, Battersea, Leeds North West, and Brighton Kemptown", the New Statesman reports, and in all of the targeted seats, "Conservative majorities collapsed in the face of energy and enthusiasm channelled into a movement".
'Labour's Jared O'Mara, who beat former deputy prime minister Nick Clegg to become MP for Sheffield Hallam, certainly felt the group played an active part. "The contribution of Momentum members in South Yorkshire and beyond was exemplary," he said. "It was a blessing to have them on board campaigning to get me elected."
It sure seems like they claimed to have backed him and he acknowledged it at the time. Might not be true I suppose. I'm not sure my first thought would be to disregard it though.
r00fie1
Well-known member
What point are you trying to make?
Lefty never really has a point. He just types a huge amount of guff that nobody can be bothered to reply to.
r00fie1
Well-known member
Wha
Neither Starmer, Luke Akehurst or any other member of the ruling right faction have denied these serious and truthful allegations.
This is the reallity of the Labour Party - post Socialism.
But you hear nothing from the same media [and right-wing Labourites, including staff at head office] who collaborated in the campaign of lies and smears to bring down a democratically elected Socialist Leader of a party with almost 500,000 members - the biggest in Europe.
Watch this and the others which accompany it.
Neither Starmer, Luke Akehurst or any other member of the ruling right faction have denied these serious and truthful allegations.
This is the reallity of the Labour Party - post Socialism.
But you hear nothing from the same media [and right-wing Labourites, including staff at head office] who collaborated in the campaign of lies and smears to bring down a democratically elected Socialist Leader of a party with almost 500,000 members - the biggest in Europe.
FabioPorkpie
Well-known member
4 years in jail….wowzers.
About time politicians got treated the same as the rest of us.
Wonder if we’ll ever get to see some of the current crooks serve time?
About time politicians got treated the same as the rest of us.
Wonder if we’ll ever get to see some of the current crooks serve time?