Has Covid and inflation killed pubs and clubs?

Malaguena said:
And yet, nowhere near where mortgage rates and (relatively) rental levels were the early 90s, as I've said above - when interest rates get to 15% and you can't afford your new fancy phone every year, top of the range gaming laptop every year, season ticket every year, go to every away match each season, and have three holidays a year, then you can come crying.

Never mind "boomer" generation, we're currently in "self entitled" generation
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You're missing the overall point that the average house price was 55k in the early 90s and the average household income was 20k.

Even at 15% interest. If you took a 100% mortgage out over 15 years, you're paying 9k per year, which is less than half of your overall household income.

In 2020, the average income was 37k but the average house price was over 260k...

If we had 15% interest mortgages now, a mortgage over THIRTY years would cost 39k per year.... more than the average household income. If you took it over 15 years its 44k per year.

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EDIT: At the current rate of 2% (ish). The average house over 15 years is 20k per year, which is 54% of the average income..... So we STILL pay more of our income to a mortgage than you did at 15% in the 90s.
 
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Malaguena said:
And yet, nowhere near where mortgage rates and (relatively) rental levels were the early 90s, as I've said above - when interest rates get to 15% and you can't afford your new fancy phone every year, top of the range gaming laptop every year, season ticket every year, go to every away match each season, and have three holidays a year, then you can come crying.

Never mind "boomer" generation, we're currently in "self entitled" generation
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Martin Lewis debunked this previously. Mortgage debt to income ratios were much lower, there was MIRAS relief on interest and far fewer people owned homes compared to today due to all parties pushing home ownership. Everything cost far less as well.

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Centralscrutinizer said:
I knew things had changed with younger people when a few years ago one of the pubs in Saltburn tried having a mid week night with free pool and jukebox. Nobody went apart from a couple of people (me mainly :) ) When I was younger the place would've been packed out.
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I was in Saltburn last Friday night for a birthday meal at Alessi's. When we finished there were people queuing out of the door waiting for tables. That Cuban place Coco whatever forget the name also looked packed and had people queuing outside.
 
Pubs gradually falling out of favour. More competition for the pound in people's pockets these days.

Covid has hastened the demise but energy costs will be the final nail in the coffin for many.

I've consciously ditched one night out per week to cover additional fuel and heating costs. I'm not prepared to dip into savings to help scum government paper over the crevices they have caused.
 
Randy said:
If you are purely a wet led pub you are going to struggle unless it's a freehold where you can shop around for your beers.

Food led pubs are the way forward and have been for a long time now. The big chain food pubs may struggle a bit this year because of the saturation of places they own but independents should continue to do good business.
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Personally speaking, I always favour locally owned establishments over the big chains. More cash stays in our local economy when they thrive.
 
BiggEggo said:
Personally speaking, I always favour locally owned establishments over the big chains. More cash stays in our local economy when they thrive.
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I don't think it makes a huge difference overall.

The staff at my local Wetherspoons spend the same money in the local economy as the staff at any other pub.
 
Snobbery killed pubs. Political classes both left and right decided they did not like working class people drinking and enjoying themselves.
 
Malaguena said:
And yet, nowhere near where mortgage rates and (relatively) rental levels were the early 90s, as I've said above - when interest rates get to 15% and you can't afford your new fancy phone every year, top of the range gaming laptop every year, season ticket every year, go to every away match each season, and have three holidays a year, then you can come crying.

Never mind "boomer" generation, we're currently in "self entitled" generation
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Ok boomer
 
Unravel_Morrison said:
I don't think it makes a huge difference overall.

The staff at my local Wetherspoons spend the same money in the local economy as the staff at any other pub.
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But where do the profits go?

I've never seen Tim Martin shopping in town - well only once - and I was in Norwich at the time.

The eggs he serves are currently being sourced in the EU.
 
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ThatFragranceGuy said:
Martin Lewis debunked this previously. Mortgage debt to income ratios were much lower, there was MIRAS relief on interest and far fewer people owned homes compared to today due to all parties pushing home ownership. Everything cost far less as well.

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Nobody is arguing about the cost of essentials having risen and having an impact on the cost of living, but for this analysis to be any way relevant, you'd need to add (as I said earlier) new fancy phone every year, top of the range gaming laptop every year, season ticket every year, go to every away match each season, and have three holidays a year, and see where you end up

The entitled ones like Sheriff expect to have those as a human right - in the 90s there was no expectation of anything being a "must have"
 
Malaguena said:
Nobody is arguing about the cost of essentials having risen and having an impact on the cost of living, but for this analysis to be any way relevant, you'd need to add (as I said earlier) new fancy phone every year, top of the range gaming laptop every year, season ticket every year, go to every away match each season, and have three holidays a year, and see where you end up

The entitled ones like Sheriff expect to have those as a human right - in the 90s there was no expectation of anything being a "must have"
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In the mid-90s you needed a season ticket to set foot in the Riverside, so not sure why you're using that as an example.

I'd be interested to see the difference in away attendances, bet its not that big.

Not sure where you're getting the 3 holidays thing from, but it sounds very anecdotal. Over the last 3 years holidays abroad have been quite hard to achieve at all, for anyone!

Kids had computers in the 80s and 90s too.

You're right about mobile phones I guess.

I remember one of these TV presenters having a rant not long about Netflix and how young people can't afford houses because of their Netflix subscriptions. Forgetting that in the 80s and 90s people used to spend 100s and 1000s of pounds a year on tapes/CDs and VHSs/DVDs. They were about £12 a pop as well, 30 years ago!
 
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Malaguena said:
Nobody is arguing about the cost of essentials having risen and having an impact on the cost of living, but for this analysis to be any way relevant, you'd need to add (as I said earlier) new fancy phone every year, top of the range gaming laptop every year, season ticket every year, go to every away match each season, and have three holidays a year, and see where you end up

The entitled ones like Sheriff expect to have those as a human right - in the 90s there was no expectation of anything being a "must have"
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For that to be relevant everyone has to be buying a new fancy phone every year, a top of the line gaming lap top every year, a season ticket every year and so on, which if you know as well as I do not everyone does, in fact I doubt less than 1% of people do those things.

I cant think of a single person I know that does any of those things every year in fact, so can't imagine why anyone would think its a human right. Absolute hyperbole. Or as you said in the 90's, bullsh*t.
 
Malaguena said:
Nobody is arguing about the cost of essentials having risen and having an impact on the cost of living, but for this analysis to be any way relevant, you'd need to add (as I said earlier) new fancy phone every year, top of the range gaming laptop every year, season ticket every year, go to every away match each season, and have three holidays a year, and see where you end up

The entitled ones like Sheriff expect to have those as a human right - in the 90s there was no expectation of anything being a "must have"
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Bit of a generalisation, but the reason the younger people are struggling to get on the property ladder isn’t because they are buying new phones or going to away games

Compared to the 90s when it was far easier to buy something, house prices have rocketed and wages have risen at nowhere near the same level. Add to that the huge increase in cost of living and an unstable rental market and you have your reason why young people aren’t buying houses.

To buy a property as a first time buyer in most areas of the uk you need at least 30/40k. A £40 monthly phone contract or a £500 season ticket arent making a big difference either way
 
atypical_boro said:
In the mid-90s you needed a season ticket to set foot in the Riverside, so not sure why you're using that as an example.

I'd be interested to see the difference in away attendances, bet its not that big.

Not sure where you're getting the 3 holidays thing from, but it sounds very anecdotal. Over the last 3 years holidays abroad have been quite hard to achieve at all, for anyone!

Kids had computers in the 80s and 90s too.

You're right about mobile phones I guess.

I remember one of these TV presenters having a rant not long about Netflix and how young people can't afford houses because of their Netflix subscriptions. Forgetting that in the 80s and 90s people used to spend 100s and 1000s of pounds a year on CDs and VHSs. They were about £12 a pop as well, over 30 years ago!
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The Netflix argument always makes me laugh, it would take over 300 years to save up enough to buy a house with that extra £7 every month
 
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