How can the Americans get better at 'Soccer'?

[Kilburn]

I don't know how much it has changed in the intervening couple of decades, but the basic level at schools must have used to be really low.

I had a cousin whose family moved over there when he was a young teenager. Over here he really wasn't great at football, wasn't in the first XI his school team.

He went to high school over there, went straight into their varsity team, was MOTM in the first game scoring a couple of goals leading them to a win, and made such an impression that the next day in the school was "*his name* Day" in celebration of him. It was great for him, going from just some lad at home to being the star player on the team over there, but said something about what the standard must have been like.

 

[Muttley]

the recent quote from Alexi Lallas

And that is why they won't get it.

As a kid I went to the park and joined in a game of 14 a side, we kicked a ball around in the back yard or on the street, we played it at school (when the rrsehole PE teacher let us - tawt loved rugby, I hate it to this day). We played it in winter, spring, summer, autumn and it cost nothing (well as long as we had a ball). We didn't have coaches or need we just loved playing the game for FUN. It is a game of skill and you get that skill by repetition not coaching. Coaching will teach to be in the right place, to make a run at the right time and tactical stuff but it won't make you better at kicking the ball.

One thing that this World Cup has entered the US mindset is that Football is the global game and that their little made up "World Championships" like the World Series, Superbowl, etc. are as nothing comparatively. Whether it is the Scots partying, the Norwegians rowing or the Belgians handing them their rrses. Welcome to the world.

 

[El Guapo]

They wont.

The grass roots kids football space is screwed in the US. I know someone whoes 1o yr old son plays in travel soccer tournaments, and the club charges about $5k a season, plus there is additional travel, petrol and accommodation on top.

Youth sports in the US is a rich kids game.

the recent quote from Alexi Lallas is mind blowing;

View attachment 109257

WOW!

sums up USA outlook though: $$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[parnabyscrosses]

I agree with this, and always question how many of us would have been good at sports we have never tried.

I went to a catholic school and we didn’t play rugby and had very little interest in it. Later in life, I was taken to a few Rugby League games and went up to Scotland to watch the 6 nations a few times and was bitten by the bug, but far too late to play. I would have loved to have given it a go.

I’m not saying I would have been good at it, but do wonder how many others who have had similar experiences would have been.

Regarding football, we played this morning, noon and night and learned the skills by playing street games - 3 pots in, knockout and wally. Playing with older lads developed you mentally and physically. I don’t think kids play like we did in the 1960s, but then, we didn’t have the kids teams they are now and only played 11 a side when we got to junior school or one street against another.

Rugby is really easy Norm, I’ve always thought anyone good at footy or sports in general could train for about 2 months and be a really high standard player. I watch matches where international players can’t even kick it out of their hands in the direction they want it to go, some of them can’t catch either. I find rugby players (barring a few) to be some of the least impressive athletes around

 

[SmoggyParmo]

I keep seeing Americans ask this on social media, they can't believe countries like Norway and Belgium which are smaller than some US states can be better than them at a sport.

Also they can't understand why they can't dominate the sport when they 'have the best athletes in the world'.

What do you think, will they ever become a major force in international football?

1. They can learn the name of the sport for a start.

2. They can import more Mexicans

 

[MickaelDebevePhenomenal]

From what I have been told from a parent over there, American grassroots football is huge business, subs are thousands a year. Players play for "academies" (glorified grassroots sides) and to justify the large amounts the parents are paying, they are all results orientated without the long term development that occurs in professional club academies in other countries. The ability to gain a college scholarships due to your football ability also fosters this results first mentality

 

[Nano]

And that is why they won't get it.

As a kid I went to the park and joined in a game of 14 a side, we kicked a ball around in the back yard or on the street, we played it at school (when the rrsehole PE teacher let us - tawt loved rugby, I hate it to this day). We played it in winter, spring, summer, autumn and it cost nothing (well as long as we had a ball). We didn't have coaches or need we just loved playing the game for FUN. It is a game of skill and you get that skill by repetition not coaching. Coaching will teach to be in the right place, to make a run at the right time and tactical stuff but it won't make you better at kicking the ball.

One thing that this World Cup has entered the US mindset is that Football is the global game and that their little made up "World Championships" like the World Series, Superbowl, etc. are as nothing comparatively. Whether it is the Scots partying, the Norwegians rowing or the Belgians handing them their rrses. Welcome to the world.

I think you'd be surprised how different it is in England now. It's not like the old days where the majority of football played was casual. Kids are getting a lot of coaching from a young age. They are playing most of their football during coaching/match sessions every week and maybe in their garden for those with enough space. The ones doing what you described as the start of their footballing life are going to be late primary or secondary school age when they are old enough to go out and play on their own. Those kids would be miles behind their peers that have been playing for years. I must admit though that the standard of young players is way higher than when I was at school 30 years ago. They are getting a lot of coaching and they do focus on "ball mastery" and technique. The players that make it into academies are being picked up by clubs from 5/6 and in a way it is getting more like the American system of pay to win with the wealthier parents being able to afford the 1to1 coaching and giving their kids the advantages (although kids are still being picked because of their physical attributes).

It's still way ahead of the US system because of the numbers. The volume of kids that want to play football in this country is massive so the competition is there which means we have a big enough ppl of kids that want to play, are physically what the clubs are after and technically what the clubs are after.

 

[Cardiffdaffs]

Isn't the problem that football is a skill based sport more akin to darts than nfl. To develop that skill you have to start young. That means getting kids kicking a ball about from pre-school. Not waiting until they are physically developed. If you haven't played football before 16 you probably aren't going to be very good.

Exactly which is what they have done with grass roots for the girls and their women's team is one of the best in the world.

The collegiate and schools system for young girls playing football is excellent. This is not the same for boys who would rather play ofher sports at that age. Culturally it would need to change.

 

[Norton_Nomad]

They will never be a major force in football.

There’s only one thing that matters to them over there and that is $$$, in every aspect of life.

The clubs over there won’t plough the money into their youth teams as there’s no guarantee of a return of investment in it. They’ll just hope that the colleges will produce the players for them.

They also seem to have this idea that if all their best athletes start playing football they’ll become good at it. Anyone who has even half an interest in the game will know how utterly laughable that idea is. It’s nothing like most of their sports, there’s actually a skill (or multiple different skills) involved which can’t just be learned by someone who’s a bit fast and strong. There’s far more skill involved than their ‘Football’ which is just big blokes crashing into each other and play stopping every 6 seconds.

 

[Frozen Horse]

I know some posters have explained how football is getting bigger in America, but it’s still not a football country though. Surely that is a big part of it.

Well there are many more Americans who are passionate about football than there are, for example, Croatians or Uruguayans.
They're just diluted by those who are not interested. Maybe that makes regular competition on a local youth level harder.

I don't think it will ever be a top sport there, or it will become a "football country" (I think I'd rather it remains a bit of an alternative sport there to be honest), but such is the size of the sports market, it can still be a major sport, and the US can be competitive.

I'd want them to be competitive, and if you accept competition, you accept the possibility of them winning, so so be it. I think Japan has made the most progress in my lifetime, or maybe Morocco. I think Morocco are probably getting the balance of street level participation and coaching culture correct.

I am a fan of NFL; I like the tactics of it, but no way do I think it is close to being as skillful as football, though the athletes themselves are amazing. Football for me is the optimal balance between sport and physicality. There are more physical sports; there are more skillful sports, but I don't think any other sport has as much of both.

 

[MickaelDebevePhenomenal]

Well there are many more Americans who are passionate about football than there are, for example, Croatians or Uruguayans.
They're just diluted by those who are not interested. Maybe that makes regular competition on a local youth level harder.

I don't think it will ever be a top sport there, or it will become a "football country" (I think I'd rather it remains a bit of an alternative sport there to be honest), but such is the size of the sports market, it can still be a major sport, and the US can be competitive.

I'd want them to be competitive, and if you accept competition, you accept the possibility of them winning, so so be it. I think Japan has made the most progress in my lifetime, or maybe Morocco. I think Morocco are probably getting the balance of street level participation and coaching culture correct.

I am a fan of NFL; I like the tactics of it, but no way do I think it is close to being as skillful as football, though the athletes themselves are amazing. Football for me is the optimal balance between sport and physicality. There are more physical sports; there are more skillful sports, but I don't think any other sport has as much of both.

Tbf what Morocco do well is early talent identification. A large proportion of their players have come up through traditioanl european footballing nations, such as Spain, France or the Netherland's. American could follow this lead.

 

[wilkos_perm]

There's some great points on here but an important factor in other countries is that people live and breathe the sport and are immersed in the fan culture from a young age. I think that sets a mentality and understanding of the sport that's difficult to replicate growing up outside of that bubble. I just don't ever see them producing a Messi, Dembele, Harry Kane type of world class player (apart from Aidan Morris).

 

[Ravshoutsatbeck]

The sport has grown to unrecognisable state since the start of the MLS - this is the first time they have had a real viable domestic competition.

The question comes if the youth game now catches up.

If this World Cup improves the interest a bit more in the US in Canada and improves the infrastructure in Mexico - there could be continental growth as well, which will help the club teams.

MLS has just passed the championship for attendance, has a bigger TV deal, but has a little stunted growth the past 2 years.

 

[Frozen Horse]

MLS has just passed the championship for attendance, has a bigger TV deal, but has a little stunted growth the past 2 years.

And. as has been said, there are leagues below MLS too. No direct promotion relegation, but growing interest outside of the MLS centres.

I think the WC will give them a huge shot in the arm. For the growth of the game, I'd like to have seen USA reach the quarters, but they lost my support after the red card fiasco.

 

[goalscrounger]

America being the greatest country on earth is taught from kindrgarten. Watch some of the YouTube videos of Americans visiting the UK, the distain they have for other nations, and because it isn't American it's "weird" (the favourite word used by Americans along with awsome). That's a generalisation, but it's how it comes across, and having Trump as their leader reinforces greatness without proof, and that awful MAGA/GOP culture.

To be fair, the general attitude in the UK is that everything that is American and different from British is "wrong" and what we do is "right" so should be copied in another country. I can remember an interesting conversation with some random guy at a party in Boro who was berating me for going to baseball games while in the US. He couldn't see the irony in his expectation that any Americans moving to England had to give up MLB and start following cricket.

 

[goalscrounger]

Americans put great stead into their grass roots soccer, however it will be the overseas development of their brightest talents that will finally see them break through. There is an unwritten, indescribable level of understanding that comes from being from a nation that has played at a high level for decades than from a new nation.

I watch footy over here with some very knowledgeable locals, but the nuances of understanding are just not there and it's evident every time we sit down for a match. Similarly, I consider myself fairly switched on about NFL, but the level of history, knowledge and instinctive understanding my friends have is something I will probably never achieve regardless of how many games I watch. This alone is the difference between the developing nations and the established European and LATAM ones.

 

[Chips n gravy]

Lived over here for 20 odd years...as Klinsmann said when he was the US manager "only in the US a working class sport played by middle class kids"

$10k for a kid to play for a club for a season....just a normal youth level club. Like many families...2-3 kids it can't be done. When I tell them it's maybe $900 or less for registration fees in Europe they can't believe it. Then you have Alexi Lalas saying that's just the way it is where else is the money going to cone from.

 

[Moreno]

Their pay to play method is flawed. It’s a rich man’s game in America. Zlatan commented that he had to pay $3500 per child for them to be in a competitive team. If you don’t have the money, you won’t be able to afford to send your child to a team. It’s not just “soccer” that is suffering, basketball has the same issue. There’s research to suggest that the more wealthier background you come from, the more chance you have, at making it in the NBA. Think about how many players America is missing out on because they just cannot afford to play for a team?

The amount of sports on offer like baseball, basketball and American football etc means there is so much choice for a child to choose from. This will also impact what players get drawn to which sport. Depending where you look, you get different figures but according to one survey, soccer is the third most played sport in children aged 6-17. Basketball and American football are played more by children and baseball is just below soccer. In comparison here, football far exceeds any other sport.

Their route into the professional leagues is through the college system which is far too old to be coming into professional sport (21/22). They have developed academies which seem to be turning out some more professionals in recent years (Morris went through this route with Weston before joining Columbus academy). This route is now becoming more popular which will help the growth of their teams.

However, MLS pay at entry level is pretty low (it’s like $70,000-$100,000) so many talented young American players end up get picked up by European clubs (Germany sign a lot of Americans). Also, look at the difference between a 1st round NBA draft pick ($14 million), MLB players making an opening day roster earn a minimum of $780,000 and NFL (minimum salary is $885,000). If you’re good at sport, what are you going to pursue? $70k or millions?

 

[newyddion]

Americans think they should dominate and be the best at everything by right.

It’s quite the character flaw

They have been brainwashed for birth.. they are more like North Korea than they would like to admit.. or than they are aware of.

 

[Chips n gravy]

Their pay to play method is flawed. It’s a rich man’s game in America. Zlatan commented that he had to pay $3500 per child for them to be in a competitive team. If you don’t have the money, you won’t be able to afford to send your child to a team. It’s not just “soccer” that is suffering, basketball has the same issue. There’s research to suggest that the more wealthier background you come from, the more chance you have, at making it in the NBA. Think about how many players America is missing out on because they just cannot afford to play for a team?

The amount of sports on offer like baseball, basketball and American football etc means there is so much choice for a child to choose from. This will also impact what players get drawn to which sport. Depending where you look, you get different figures but according to one survey, soccer is the third most played sport in children aged 6-17. Basketball and American football are played more by children and baseball is just below soccer. In comparison here, football far exceeds any other sport.

Their route into the professional leagues is through the college system which is far too old to be coming into professional sport (21/22). They have developed academies which seem to be turning out some more professionals in recent years (Morris went through this route with Weston before joining Columbus academy). This route is now becoming more popular which will help the growth of their teams.

However, MLS pay at entry level is pretty low (it’s like $70,000-$100,000) so many talented young American players end up get picked up by European clubs (Germany sign a lot of Americans). Also, look at the difference between a 1st round NBA draft pick ($14 million), MLB players making an opening day roster earn a minimum of $780,000 and NFL (minimum salary is $885,000). If you’re good at sport, what are you going to pursue? $70k or millions?

Totally agree. The NCAA(college sports) the governing body has it's own interests. It's the main feeder system for NFL,NBA, MLB and somewhat NHL. College sports generate so much money and for many people in the US they prefer to watch college sports than NFL/NBA hence the many 100,000 capacity at college football stadiums.

There is no alignment or long term goal between MLS and NCAA. The NCAA needs to stay relevant and taking the millions. The MLS need to tackle US Youth Soccer at grassroots which is where the "red tape" starts.

The other factor here is that all kids/parents want to go to college...it's the done thing just like waking up in the morning. College is hell expensive here $50-$100k per year, so if you have a chance to get a sports scholarship and have your tuition paid for then many take that path...free or partial degree and play footy or try turning pro somewhere which is a gamble. I'm going through it right now with my son who's in high school and a very talented swimmer.