I was wrong about starmer

SuperStu said:
Relies on a Starmer government being "good" doesn't it. Judging by the rest of the thread even his proponents are mostly saying it only might maybe possibly hopefully be a bit less sh*t!
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No, I think they're saying it'll definitely be less ****. But nowhere near as positive as it should be.

I suppose the problem is you can still be a bit **** and yet miles better than this lot. Which is pretty much the depressing reality.

Removing the Tories would still be a good thing for this country.
 
As far as I can see no one has bothered to read labour's manifesto policy.

It's interesting that people just want to argue the rights and wrongs. of starmer.

I wonder why that would be. Any one of you could go and read the document and argue the policies not the man.

That you chose not to suggests views are entrenched and are no longer based on facts.

Read the policy manifesto and discuss that. Far more constructive.
 
I
Laughing said:
As far as I can see no one has bothered to read labour's manifesto policy.

It's interesting that people just want to argue the rights and wrongs. of starmer.

I wonder why that would be. Any one of you could go and read the document and argue the policies not the man.

That you chose not to suggests views are entrenched and are no longer based on facts.

Read the policy manifesto and discuss that. Far more constructive.
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I'm probably a bit more centrist economically than my fellow Starmer despisers. When he stands up later today to give his best Kryten impersonation I won't find much to horrify me in the content. I can even imagine circumstances where I'd vote for him on the 'lesser c*&t' principle, but make no mistake - he's a lying, unprincipled c*&t.
 
JackG said:
I

I'm probably a bit more centrist economically than my fellow Starmer despisers. When he stands up later today to give his best Kryten impersonation I won't find much to horrify me in the content. I can even imagine circumstances where I'd vote for him on the 'lesser c*&t' principle, but make no mistake - he's a lying, unprincipled c*&t.
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Not sure that is a good description of him. he is, at best disengenouos. As I said earlier in the thread, he did say when he was elected, he would do whatever it took. It's a promise he kept.

I don't particularly like him either. I don't have to. Politics is about picking the best option put in front of you, not complaining about what you would prefer to be put in front of you. Starmer had to persuade a lot of people to switch back to labour after 2019. He has to do that in numbers sufficient enough to get the tories out of government. That means that labours offerring has to appeal to people outside of the labour party. It's a fact of polictical life in the UK.

Again go and read Labour's manifesto policy and argue his offerring, not the man. That would be more constructive. It doesn't go far enough for me, but it is a long way from the right that people are accusing starmer of being.
 
Laughing said:
Not sure that is a good description of him. he is, at best disengenouos. As I said earlier in the thread, he did say when he was elected, he would do whatever it took. It's a promise he kept.

I don't particularly like him either. I don't have to. Politics is about picking the best option put in front of you, not complaining about what you would prefer to be put in front of you. Starmer had to persuade a lot of people to switch back to labour after 2019. He has to do that in numbers sufficient enough to get the tories out of government. That means that labours offerring has to appeal to people outside of the labour party. It's a fact of polictical life in the UK.

Again go and read Labour's manifesto policy and argue his offerring, not the man. That would be more constructive. It doesn't go far enough for me, but it is a long way from the right that people are accusing starmer of being.
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I've read it (OK - I've read the Labour List summary) and I very much agree with about 98% of it. (not the fiscal rules, but I can see the political sense in the argument). Overall I think it's an immeasurably better manifesto than anything the Tories are likely to come up with. Once again, it's not the policies, it's the man. I think he's a wrongun. He reminds me of a wooden Blair. Superficially OK but rotten to the core.
 
Laughing said:
As far as I can see no one has bothered to read labour's manifesto policy
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I think the point being made is that Starmer has backtracked on every pledge he has made.

Therefore can we believe what is written in the manifesto?

I’ll vote Labour as I’m desperate to be rid of the Tories, but Labour no longer represent my political views. When I hear talk of Starmer wanting to take on and oust the left of the party, I am pretty appalled.
 
sherlock1969 said:
I think the point being made is that Starmer has backtracked on every pledge he has made.

Therefore can we believe what is written in the manifesto?

I’ll vote Labour as I’m desperate to be rid of the Tories, but Labour no longer represent my political views. When I hear talk of Starmer wanting to take on and oust the left of the party, I am pretty appalled.
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I don't disagree with your comments about starmer. I may disagree with why and the rights and wrongs of breaking his promise.

I don't know, but perhaps, the reality of what the tories were doing bit and winning at any cost was the right thing for the uk. He may well be selling his sole to save lives. Maybe circumstances changed enough to change his mind.

I don't know if he was always planning on throwing his leadership pledges in the bin.

The Labour manifesto is binding in as much as, if you believe starmer it's all about power, he will have to deliver on the manifesto to stay in power. Win win, whatever his motivation.

As for the people he had ejected from the party. I largely agree. If you don't follow the party line, find another party.
 
bumface said:
I disagree completely. This is a 'centrist' board. There are only about half a dozen left wing posters on here.
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Orville had more thoughts of his own than this faceless tool think his Blair 2 say anything do anything to get the prime minister he won’t last long maybe longer than liz truss but will be an absolute catastrophe knock knock anyone in springs to mind mr read from a script
 
sherlock1969 said:
I’m a Labour supporter, always have been, but it’s impossible to have missed how many pledges Starmer has gone back on surely?
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Quite a lot changed and happened since those pledges, changes way outside the norm, an undeniable fact. Starmer and Labour have to move with the times, and also the pledges/labour wording/ manifesto's etc need to be able to win. There's going to be a hell of a lot of work to do to roll back on the carnage of 20-25. The UK was not in a great position in early 2020, but it's far, far worse now, pledges/ manifesto will need to be realistic to that, and also what will actually be able to win an election.

Corbyn/ Labour delivered 0% of the manifesto's, from 2017 or 2019, and the Brexit team he/ Labour was supposedly batting for lost too, especially in Labour voting areas. Because of those losses it allowed 8 years of the worst far-right Tory **** show that I have seen. We went further backward, so it was even worse that 0%.

The only pledge Starmer actually had any control over was pledge 10, be an effective opposition to the Tories, and he's done that as the Tories are likely to lose half their seats, and labour will pick up loads of them.
 
Andy_W said:
Quite a lot changed and happened since those pledges, changes way outside the norm, an undeniable fact. Starmer and Labour have to move with the times, and also the pledges/labour wording/ manifesto's etc need to be able to win. There's going to be a hell of a lot of work to do to roll back on the carnage of 20-25. The UK was not in a great position in early 2020, but it's far, far worse now, pledges/ manifesto will need to be realistic to that, and also what will actually be able to win an election.

Corbyn/ Labour delivered 0% of the manifesto's, from 2017 or 2019, and the Brexit team he/ Labour was supposedly batting for lost too, especially in Labour voting areas. Because of those losses it allowed 8 years of the worst far-right Tory **** show that I have seen. We went further backward, so it was even worse that 0%.

The only pledge Starmer actually had any control over was pledge 10, be an effective opposition to the Tories, and he's done that as the Tories are likely to lose half their seats, and labour will pick up loads of them.
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The only pledge he had any control over… FFS. He had control over all of them. Come on man. Excuse after excuse after excuse.
 
Also let’s just be honest here. Labour picked up quite a lot of seats recently, as did the Greens and Lib Dems. Labour did not pick up as many as they thought or hoped they would. Wes Streeting seems very confident people will switch from the Greens and Lib Dems at the next election but I wouldn’t be so sure.

Perhaps it’s time to acknowledge that quite a lot of people just don’t like what Starmer is about - whatever that is - and what he’s saying? Which seems to be we’re going to have more of the same just slightly less awful. It’s going to mainly crackdowns. People are sick of this two-party bullsh*t.
 
Laughing said:
For anyone interested in the policy manifesto it can be read here. It's is essentially what will form the basis of the labour manifesto at the next election.

labourlist.org

Revealed: Full draft policy platform that could form 2024 Labour manifesto - LabourList

Labour has drafted its most comprehensive policy programme yet for a Keir Starmer government, drawing up a provisional…
labourlist.org labourlist.org
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All looks good to me, doesn't seem very Tory as some on here claim he's going to be?

I think that's all a bit optimistic mind, but if he/ Labour managed even half of it I would be over the moon.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
Also let’s just be honest here. Labour picked up quite a lot of seats recently, as did the Greens and Lib Dems. Labour did not pick up as many as they thought or hoped they would. Wes Streeting seems very confident people will switch from the Greens and Lib Dems at the next election but I wouldn’t be so sure.

Perhaps it’s time to acknowledge that quite a lot of people just don’t like what Starmer is about - whatever that is - and what he’s saying? Which seems to be we’re going to have more of the same just slightly less awful. It’s going to mainly crackdowns. People are sick of this two-party bullsh*t.
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People vote differently in council elections, this has been known for a long time. There was a hell of a lot of tactical voting too, to enable the largest loss of Tory seats possible, which worked, they lost ~1000.

I would rather have labour pick up 500/1000 than pick up 400/400 for example, it's good people think they have other options.

It's good that the Greens got some seats too, and LD aren't that bad compared to the Tories, I'd rather have LD picking up those seats than the Tories etc, and Labour doesn't have much chance anyway in a lot of those areas, not council elections anyway.

Also worth noting that loads of areas which Labour will do well in were not even voting, England's skewed further right than the rest of the UK etc.
 
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