IF you voted Conservative last time

Who are you most ashamed of?

  • Boris and the Tory party as a whole

    Votes: 17 68.0%
  • Yourself

    Votes: 2 8.0%
  • The media for exposing the continual malfeasance

    Votes: 6 24.0%

  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .

Billy69_uk

Well-known member
As much as I could never bring myself to vote Conservative, I can't help feeling that posts like the OP don't help the current situation at all.

Everyone should have the right to vote without fear of being ridiculed or blamed for the failings of the party they voted for.

I just think this type of divisive mindset is part of the problem, when really any dialogue and opinion should be more constructive and positive. In the end, division just plays into the hands of people like BJ, because it's what their whole strategy is based upon and its counter-democratic.

This isn't meant to be a criticism of the OP, so please don't take it that way, but surely we can be more constructive about stuff that in reality affects us all, without resorting to trying to shame people who were just doing what they thought was right?

no criticism or offence taken.

What I was rather hamfistedly trying to address was more around" actions having consequences" and just what does it take these days for people to examine their own actions and admit they were mistaken, even though they acted with the best intentions at the time.

Can people be self appraising and self critical or will some just keep piling on because they dont/cant admit they were misled or mistaken?

plus, I like poking fun at shy Tories, as much as I like poking fun at those on the left who cant get behind a party candidate who wasnt at the miners strike, and thereby gifting power to the Tories.
 

SuperStu

Well-known member
This is a big part of the problem. The 'right' of the party (whoever they are) didn't need to undermine Corbyn he managed that so well all by himself.
When he got elected he had the opportuntiy to unite the party behind one of the greatest rises in membership ever. Instead he presided over a party rife with bullying, anti-semitism, factionalism and bitterness...... driven by Momentum and ended up with many actually leaving the Party.
You people are still in the background trying to undermine Starmer and are guilty of the very thing you accuse others of doing to Corbyn.
WE HAVE TO GET RID OF THE TORIES.
It's time to unite and learn the lessons of Corbyn's disasters.

Bizarre post.

Must all be driven by motivated reasoning I suppose.

Difficult to believe anyone could seriously hold the opinion Corbyn wasn't undermined/sabotaged by his own side, but that Starmer has been.

You can't figure out who's on the right of the Labour party?
 

gregorgregorovich

Well-known member
That's right, get the man not the ball. You do yourself no favours with insults. :)
If you're upset about 'you people' take a break. (y)
Get the man not the ball states someone who does exactly that, blaming Corbyn for absolutely everything. If you're upset, oh look more condescension. So I apologise, I missed a word out, you hypocritical, arrogant, condescending **** and thanks for the advice, but I don't need to take a break and yes I know when I'm insulting people, a pity you don't seem to.
 

TeessideCleveland

Well-known member
It's almost universally accepted that Starmer has had Johnson's measure for months now and today was no exception.

But you'll still get Labour supporters on here who won't acknowledge that because Starmer's not as left wing as they insist any Labour leader should be.

It's all cobblers.
And at the moment they're not Labour supporters
 

zzzzz

Well-known member
Get the man not the ball states someone who does exactly that, blaming Corbyn for absolutely everything. If you're upset, oh look more condescension. So I apologise, I missed a word out, you hypocritical, arrogant, condescending **** and thanks for the advice, but I don't need to take a break and yes I know when I'm insulting people, a pity you don't seem to.
Sorry you're struggling with a cohesive reply to the facts I laid bare and sorry you have to resort to childish insults. It's a sign of someone getting out of their depth. Must try harder. 😁
 

r00fie1

Well-known member
And there are of course similarities with the last far left Labour Candidate.... Michael Foot.
He also bombed at the polls.
He also was mostly responsible for a large Tory majority.
And look what happened after that.
No
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
I can't vote in this as not a Tory voter, but just realised I can still see the results:

1642075896786.png

Only 23 said they voted Tory, on a thread which has 3k views and 152 posts, wow!

Fair play to the two who are ashamed of themselves, it takes a lot to admit you were lied to or that you fell for it.

Good on the 15 for the first option, but would these still vote Tory again? The party is rotten to the core, and needs a full clearout, as during their last clear-out they got rid of the only people who had half a heart or some competence, or actually wanted some good for the public. Cameron and May were not great, for the common man, far from it, but 20 times better than BJ, Mogg and that band of clowns only interested in the top 1%.

Not sure why six voted for the third option, why would people be ashamed that the media have exposed the wrongdoing? Surely this is a good thing, unless they like the Tories doing wrong, as it benefits them? Basically are they admitting they like the wrongdoing, but don't like that more people now know about it, which is pretty selfish.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
I can't vote in this as not a Tory voter, but just realised I can still see the results:

View attachment 31324

Only 23 said they voted Tory, on a thread which has 3k views and 152 posts, wow!

Fair play to the two who are ashamed of themselves, it takes a lot to admit you were lied to or that you fell for it.

Good on the 15 for the first option, but would these still vote Tory again? The party is rotten to the core, and needs a full clearout, as during their last clear-out they got rid of the only people who had half a heart or some competence, or actually wanted some good for the public. Cameron and May were not great, for the common man, far from it, but 20 times better than BJ, Mogg and that band of clowns only interested in the top 1%.

Not sure why six voted for the third option, why would people be ashamed that the media have exposed the wrongdoing? Surely this is a good thing, unless they like the Tories doing wrong, as it benefits them? Basically are they admitting they like the wrongdoing, but don't like that more people now know about it, which is pretty selfish.

I'd really like the six who voted for option 6 to explain. It's honest though, I'll give them that.
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
For those denying Corbyn was a major issue for people voting Labour in 2019, take a look at his popularity. You don't like Blair? Corbyn is even more toxic.

Please stop dwelling in this fantasy land in your heads and focus on the real world of today.
You're right about Corbyn, I don't know one voter who switched sides to join them, because of him, but know loads who wouldn't vote Labour with him there, as centrists (of the two parties). Whether that was justified or just media smear is another matter, but the fact is it happened, and we can't let that happen again. I don't know many on the extreme left of Labour mind, but suppose they're massively outnumbered by those Labour voters slightly further right (who are more realistic) or more in-between labour or Tories.

I don't mind if people see Starmer as bad, as a lot of the time the figurehead always takes flack when the other MP's do not, and doesn't get the benefit they deserve. I think he's played the last two years very well from a tactical point of view. Not going OTT against the Tories when they were shooting themselves in the foot, but being very clinical at PMQ's. I think some other good Labour MP's would have gone too far, and the public in the centre may have seen that as just having a go for the sake of it, when it was not necessary, and a lot of people regretted their Tory vote, just didn't want to have that hammered home too fast.

For Labour to have turned this around is incredible, and a lot of that has to be credited to the leader, and I expect them to put their foot on the gas with 1-1.5 years before the GE, to try and cement this in place.

As long as Starmer makes himself less disliked (than say Corbyn) by those in the middle, then that means a Tory voter switching sides, is a net gain of two, if tory goes down one and labour up one. If that annoys the further left then I don't care, for every one of those labour lose, they won't vote Tory, so they're not a section worth thinking about, until Labour can get in power.

1642076678137.png
Be interesting to see what Blairs was in 2000, 2003 and 2005 etc, far higher I expect. Opinion of his has swayed, due to the benefit of people having hindsight (which Labour didn't have at the time of Iraq war, and were relying on US intelligence and the general public mostly in approval etc). Funny how loads of Tories pretend to hate Balir for the war, yet all their MP's voted for it, in a far greater majority than Labour or anyone else did. It certainly wouldn't have been anywhere near getting over the line if Tories were against it.
 
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