In praise of EV'S

Ha ha, you're desperate to sell the EV option aren't you!

I think it's a fairer suggestion to say that there are pros and cons with EV and it depends on what your priorities are.
Not that desperate no. I’m not a salesman. I do think the lies and exaggerations of the negatives of EV need addressing. Which is why gents protracted and fact free defence of the anti EV propaganda is distasteful to me.

I know there are pros and cons but the fact they are cheaper to run exists. As does the fact petrol and diesel vehicles are being phased out.
 
Cheaper to run, a less engaging drive (apart from flooring them, which is awesome) but more pleasant utility motoring and maintenance experience. Artificially overpriced and potentially prone to huge depreciation as range comes into parity with petrol/diesel cars. Not as much as a petrol/diesel is likely to depreciate as it is even more obsolete technology than these current batteries will be in 10 years.

So I guess if you are happy to pay the premium to rent/finance one then EV is the way to go as it negates the obsolescence. Knackers the green argument as it relies on you changing the thing. I just want to buy a car and run it for 15 years and help smash capitalism. It's not the right time for me.
 
. Artificially overpriced and potentially prone to huge depreciation as range comes into parity with petrol/diesel cars. Not as much as a petrol/diesel is likely to depreciate as it is even more obsolete technology than these current batteries will be in 10 years.
is any of this even remotely correct? I think you need to back up those statements
 
it's a forward looking statement based on simple economics and logic. Apart from the fact they are more expensive currently despite having fewer components. That I proved with the mini link.
 
I'm happy that you are happy with your purchase. I will be with mine when the prices come down and the range is in parity which will obviously happen. Clearly better vehicles for modest requirements. Very much looking forward to having one.
 
Not that desperate no. I’m not a salesman. I do think the lies and exaggerations of the negatives of EV need addressing. Which is why gents protracted and fact free defence of the anti EV propaganda is distasteful to me.

I know there are pros and cons but the fact they are cheaper to run exists. As does the fact petrol and diesel vehicles are being phased out.
Relax, I was just teasing. They do make a lot of sense, but there are still drawbacks - that's a fact too.
 
Ignore genty @Tom_Boro , he's being an imbecile.

Yes if you are looking to change your car right now you should seriously consider an EV. They are far cheaper to run and of course will soon be the only option anyway. It doesn't make sense to be a technology that is currently being phased out.
The problem is, this is where you're defeating your own argument. You're thinking in terms of technology, which is a flawed argument. The purpose of a vehicle is to get from one place to another. Bringing in computers and automation for every aspect of motoring isn't necessarily a good thing, at least at the moment. Much of it creates problems because it isn't tried and tested and hasn't been mastered. But this is in the interest of the manufacturer. Because when it breaks or new technology arrives, people spend a whole load of money on the latest product. It's a fools game as far as the consumer is concerned. But people spend their money as they choose.
 
Perhaps you are right about not buying a lemon. This article suggests there won't be much density improvement in Lion batteries. It does suggest that prices per KWh have fallen faster than the manufacturer list prices would have you believe and in a couple of years (if supply outstrips demand, and the car manufacturers aren't making up for reduced servicing revenue) those list prices will fall in line. That will depress resale value on this crop so I might get one sooner than I think.
 
The problem is, this is where you're defeating your own argument. You're thinking in terms of technology, which is a flawed argument. The purpose of a vehicle is to get from one place to another. Bringing in computers and automation for every aspect of motoring isn't necessarily a good thing, at least at the moment. Much of it creates problems because it isn't tried and tested and hasn't been mastered. But this is in the interest of the manufacturer. Because when it breaks or new technology arrives, people spend a whole load of money on the latest product. It's a fools game as far as the consumer is concerned. But people spend their money as they choose.
That's an incorrect argument again. Or at least doesn't support your ice is better argument that you are still mistakenly clinging too.
ICE vehicles have a tonne of computing and technology in them.

You're also wrong to equate automated driving with EVs. Any automatic vehicle can be self driving
 
Yeah. I’d turn down saving a tonne of money just so I could have a car that goes “brmmmmmmm”

To be fair, that’s a more common sense defence of ICE than anyone else’s 🤣
So if for example you were offered this

IMG_48403-large~2.jpg

Instead of this

download (1).jpeg

You'd pick the white one???

That's a Ferrari F8 Tributo by the way. Some say the last V8 Ferrari will ever put in a mass marketed car before they drop down to V6's.
 
Certain posters really 'love' an EV. It's almost scary. Definate chance of sexual relations with a car (although no exhaust pipe could be an issue)

I have no issue with an EV owner. I just don't need it ramming down my throat. Its just like vegans telling my that they are vegan without me asking (sorry going off on a tangent but happened twice last week😂)
 
Certain posters really 'love' an EV. It's almost scary. Definate chance of sexual relations with a car (although no exhaust pipe could be an issue)

I have no issue with an EV owner. I just don't need it ramming down my throat. Its just like vegans telling my that they are vegan without me asking (sorry going off on a tangent but happened twice last week😂)
I think you are misunderstanding the thread and the point of it.

There are many lies and exaggerations about problems with EVs that people like Gent are still desperate to parrot despite being proven to be wrong.

EVs are better for the environment than ICE vehicles and they are much better for your wallet. You seem upset that people like Andy and myself are busting myths specifically so we can save people money if they are buying a new car.
 
You revealed that you've personally owned around or over 20 vehicles. Not sure how old you are, but regardless - this means you're regularly changing your car. That's way beyond the norm. It points to never been satisfied and/or wanting the latest model.


But this has nothing to do with the subject we are discussing. People buying used will generally buy one from the last decade. They aren't buying something from the 80s or 90s. If you buy a brand new vehicle you aren't necessarily getting a better one. It might well be inferior in terms of reliability or build quality. Of course, there's a whole range of permutations. But thinking a new model of a vehicle is offering significant improvements that ends up benefiting the customer isn't correct

Once again, you struggle to grasp some pretty basic fundamentals. You can get very similar quality pairs of shoes that might be priced very different. This is due to branding and marketing. A £50 pair might be almost exactly the same as a £150 pair, produced in the same or similar factory to comparable standards. This happens with lots of things. You're trying to frame this as buying the lowest quality versus the best quality. But this EV discussion isn't about that. In any case, I reckon there will be many lower priced goods that can at least match their more expensive counterparts. That's just a basic life lesson that most begin to realise once they reach adulthood and start living in the real world. I don't eat beans, but if a lower cost product was just as good or close to something much more expensive, of course I'd go for it.


This is a nothing statement. Everything has faults. It's a bit like saying every football team will win, lose and draw. Certain brands and types of vehicles have a much higher than average problem rate. Some much less than average. Knowing what is what is even more important if you're planning on keeping a vehicle for a lengthy period. In all cases, the more complexity and unproven technology involved, the greater potential of things going wrong.
I've got 3 cars at a time personally, and maybe 5-10 other vehicles through the company at any one time, doesn't take long to rack the numbers up. Someone may just have one car, for 3 years, over 30 years that's 10 cars.
I've got a budget TCO, I'm happy to pay, and this budget has gone up and up over the years and additional to this if I buy wisely I can change more often. I change more than most, probably because my budget has gone up and circumstances/ requirements change more than most.

I've been pretty satisfied with every car I've owned, just like I was satisfied with a phone from 15 years ago, or internet speed from 10 years ago etc. You can live your life in the past if you like, your choice. If there's better around for similar cost, then I'll do that.

How many EV's have you owned?

If you're happy with a 10 year old car, then why not 20 or 30 years old? They do the same thing, right? You could pick one up for 1k, rather than the 10k you might spend.
But for balance, I've I've just above compared two 2020 cars, the EV worked out far cheaper, and is clearly better and higher spec. I notice that nobody took apart the spec comparison or numbers in any way, probably as the numbers were largely correct and people don't have the EV experience to work it out, which is understandable.

New cars of similar class (on average) will be better than old cars, it's a fact, it's effectively evolution. There's a lot more that can go wrong in an ICE, and like we've mentioned the EV warranties are far superior anyway. The manufacturers wouldn't put good warranties on them, if they thought otherwise, and they know more than you or me. They know where the market is, and where it is going, and I agree with them.

I wasn't talking about £50-£150, I was talking about £10-50, which is why I mentioned £10-50. There would be a lesser quality difference in a £50-150 pair, which is why I didn't mention that. The same reason why I wouldn't advise many people to spend 100k on an EV, if they have a budget of £300 a month TCO. Some might earn double, or triple, for them they could look at the higher price ranges. They're getting less value, through the law of diminishing returns, but if they've got the money, then why not. They're still probably saving half their wage each month. I wouldn't be advising anyone to blow a massive chunk of their wages on a car.

Like I keep saying, you can't control peoples budgets, values or preferences, which is what you seem to want to do.

All I'm doing is offering opinion and calculations, for typical TCO budget ranges, for newer cars, as there's much more EV choice now. This will filter down, but hasn't filtered down yet, to all ages and budgets, which is why I've not done comparisons for 10 year old cars. In 8-10 years I might do that. I won't need to mind, as the world will have woken up by then.

If you want an older car, have a lower budget, and only change your car every 5-10 years, then great, stick with what is best for you and your requirement's. There's millions of others in the same boat as you, but not everyone is. Almost anyone could get in your boat, and buy an older car with a lower budget than they currently spend, most don't as they will choose a budget and return which suits them and their finances and requirements, which they're entitled to do.

It seems like you've not ever had a fault on your 5-10 year old cars, outside of warranties, you're in the minority there.

Electric motors and batteries have been in use longer than cars or combustion engines have, but regardless, they're covered by longer warranties also.
 
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I think you are misunderstanding the thread and the point of it.

There are many lies and exaggerations about problems with EVs that people like Gent are still desperate to parrot despite being proven to be wrong.

EVs are better for the environment than ICE vehicles and they are much better for your wallet. You seem upset that people like Andy and myself are busting myths specifically so we can save people money if they are buying a new car.
To be fair I didn't name anyone. Just saying certain folk 'love EVs'.

I have no doubt some people are listing to outdated myths about EVs.

I'm just saying it's still very much a choice and EVs simply don't suit everyone. It's not as black and white as 'ICE bad' 'EVs amazing'. It's all about opinions and not as simplistic as telling people they are wrong for not wanting an EV.
 
To be fair I didn't name anyone. Just saying certain folk 'love EVs'.

I have no doubt some people are listing to outdated myths about EVs.

I'm just saying it's still very much a choice and EVs simply don't suit everyone. It's not as black and white as 'ICE bad' 'EVs amazing'. It's all about opinions and not as simplistic as telling people they are wrong for not wanting an EV.
I know. Hence why on this very thread i advised someone to stick with diesel. The myths still persist though and they still need busting.
 
My next car due to arrive in January is petrol but I think I would get an EV after that. There's some good looking ones coming through and the ranges are getting better all the time.
I was having some second thoughts though after the recent storms.Some people have been cut off for a week and could be facing a further week without electric. Not good for those with a home charging point and an EV.
 
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