Keir Starmer - FoM now a red-line

[MolteniArcore]

Earlier you intimated that if Labour bettered the Tory offer then they would likely come in with a higher one.

It is a possibility.

Starmer, Streeting and Reeves have appeared on national TV and all have refused to confirm that Labour's offer would be a single penny higher than the Tory offer. This is not most people's idea of applying pressure.

They are applying pressure by calling them out for not entering negotiations that would have called off the strike.

I think there are two issues here:

1. The Strike. The Tories could have stopped the strike by talking to the union. They refused. Labour are pressuring on this basis. A simple message - 'All the Gov had to do to stop the strike was to talk' - most people would find it bizarre that the Gov didn't talk to the union and stop the strike.

2. The Pay Deal. The message here isn't as simple. Labour could get outflanked which makes pressuring on this basis more risky and complicated. Once the political capital is gone from pressuring on the strike maybe they will switch to this line. Maybe not.

If the calculation has been made that the Tories aren't going to budge no matter what Labour say then it doesn't really matter what they actually say so it is just about what the public think of Labour's stance. A few of you don't like it, some people do. And that is politics - you can't please everyone.

Anyway, work now done so I'm logging off. Have a good weekend. UTB

 

[MolteniArcore]

That's twice in one thread that the leftists (hope Stu doesn't mind the name-calling) have been accused of taking the P by making reference to centrist 'memes' about the left.

Strange how it's always the left that has to rise above it. Or compromise. Or accept our lot and just vote for centrism.

It was a joke - don't be so sensitive

 

[Redwurzel]

On QT, the Labour spokes person said their priority was negotiating a better leaving deal which I did think was quite clever, not principled, but clever.

That way they avoid upsetting anyone in the Red Wall seats.

Four stages down they said we will look to negotiate for Single Market status which with hindsight is probably the best position for the UK (in my view but I know others differ.)

 

[HolgateCorner]

She was originally suspended for speaking at a Resist meeting after it had been proscribed. However, resist is not a far left movement and one has to question whether they and other groups should be proscribed at all in a Democratic Socialist party.
However, other Jews have been kicked out for interacting with these groups before they were proscribed, which is a failing of natural justice and is at odds with free speech. People have been suspended for liking posts or retweeting tweets from the Green Party for goodness sake.

Labour’s rules say “proscribed acts” include “possessing membership of, providing financial assistance to, sitting on the ruling body of or otherwise supporting (as may be defined by the NEC) any political organisation that the NEC in its absolute discretion shall declare to be inimical with the aims and values of the party”.

However, Christian Wakeford, a man who was actually a Conservative politician was accepted into the Labour Party last January when he expressed his wish to cross the floor. By May he was appointed PPS to the shadow secretary for education and on 1st November he was made a Labour Whip.

Do people who defend Starmer at every turn not feel alarmed at how he treats Jews who support Palestine, or at his total lack of support for Muslim women MP's like Apsana Begum and Zara Sultana? Begum in particular has had a torrid time of it. A victim of domestic abuse and of an attempt by her ex husband and his friends on her local council to have her jailed for fraud (she was found innocent) which lead to long time sick absence, but during that time and since, she has never had a word of support or encouragement from Starmer. He has never contacted her.

I’m not an activist so apologies if I appear naive on such things but why is the position on Palestine and Jewish or Muslim MPs such a big issue for Labour?

They appeared to be for Corbyn (who rightly or wrongly got accused of racism) and now the same problems mentioned on here for Starmer.

Surely the cost of living crisis and the economic shambles in the U.K. should be the focus?

 

[Scrote]

Surely the cost of living crisis and the economic shambles in the U.K. should be the focus?

Someone let the genie out of the bottle and didn't think that it'd be difficult to get it back in again.

How wrong they were.

It would be funny if it hadn't given us five more years of the Tories when they thought they were more or less done for.

The current plundering of the public purse is opportunistic theft.

The people who facilitated it for factional advantage are accomplices.

 

[SuperStu]

Surely the cost of living crisis and the economic shambles in the U.K. should be the focus?

Sure. But for folk on the left all roads lead back to the same allegations unfortunately.

Siobhain McDonagh links anti-capitalism to antisemitism in Labour – LabourList

Labour MP Siobhain McDonagh said there was a link between antisemitism and the anti-capitalist beliefs of 'hard left' Labour members during a Radio 4 interview…

labourlist.org

 

[SuperStu]

Wes Streeting: I won't pretend NHS is envy of world

The shadow health secretary says the NHS needs reform as he attacks left-wing critics of his ideas.

www.bbc.co.uk

Labour would train more staff and use the private sector to bring down waiting lists, he said.
He branded left-wing critics of his proposals "the true Conservatives".

 

[gregorgregorovich]

Di

Wes Streeting: I won't pretend NHS is envy of world

The shadow health secretary says the NHS needs reform as he attacks left-wing critics of his ideas.

www.bbc.co.uk

Labour would train more staff and use the private sector to bring down waiting lists, he said.
He branded left-wing critics of his proposals "the true Conservatives".

Disingenuity at it's very best. Sticking up for the NHS is a bloody vote winner, what is wrong with this tosser?

 

[HolgateCorner]

Someone let the genie out of the bottle and didn't think that it'd be difficult to get it back in again.

How wrong they were.

It would be funny if it hadn't given us five more years of the Tories when they thought they were more or less done for.

The current plundering of the public purse is opportunistic theft.

The people who facilitated it for factional advantage are accomplices.

Could you be more specific?

 

[JackG]

I’m not an activist so apologies if I appear naive on such things but why is the position on Palestine and Jewish or Muslim MPs such a big issue for Labour?

They appeared to be for Corbyn (who rightly or wrongly got accused of racism) and now the same problems mentioned on here for Starmer.

Surely the cost of living crisis and the economic shambles in the U.K. should be the focus?

Starmer and his ilk made it so by pushing through the adoption of the IHRA definition of antisemitism, plus examples. They are comfortable with apartheid and ethnic cleansing; many other party members are not.

 

[HolgateCorner]

Starmer and his ilk made it so by pushing through the adoption of the IHRA definition of antisemitism, plus examples. They are comfortable with apartheid and ethnic cleansing; many other party members are not.

I’m not promoting racism or ethnic cleansing but this sort of stuff is easy for the right wing media and the Tories to confuse ordinary voters with.

Look at BLM and the gender argument, not a day goes by without right wingers saying Kneeler Starmer or he doesn’t know what a woman is etc, it’s just easy pickings for the Tories.