Keir Starmer - FoM now a red-line

From Collins Dictionary: "a group or class of people having institutional authority within a society, esp those who control the civil service, the government, the armed forces, and the Church: usually identified with a conservative outlook.

From Wiki: The Establishment is a term used to describe a dominant group or elite that controls a polity or an organization. It may comprise a closed social group that selects its own members, or entrenched elite structures in specific institutions. One can refer to any relatively small class or group of people who can exercise control.
Anyone can Google it but who's actually in the establishment? Give me some names or actual organisations, companies etc.
It's claptrap like this that has previously driven people away from the Labour Party. You're stuck in the 70s mate, nobody is interested in outdated, regressive 'freedom for Tooting' shiite anymore.
 
Anyone can Google it but who's actually in the establishment? Give me some names or actual organisations, companies etc.
It's claptrap like this that has previously driven people away from the Labour Party. You're stuck in the 70s mate, nobody is interested in outdated, regressive 'freedom for Tooting' shiite anymore.
Royals. Banks. Media. You only have to wake up and log on to see what the establishment is, who’s in it, where the priorities lie, why things are as they are. It’s as clear as day.
 
Of course Starmer is their man. Why do you think the press have given him such an easy ride? You're the delusional one, mate. You're not the only one though. This site is full of them.

Easy time? There was something like 12 front pages against Starmer about a party that never happened :D
 
Easy time? There was something like 12 front pages against Starmer about a party that never happened :D
Compare and contrast to the way they treated Corbyn. If Corbyn was kicking left wing jews out of the party you'd have never heard the end of it. Starmer does it and they don't ever bother mentioning it. Has Starmer been accused of dancing at The Cenotaph yet, or of being a Czech spy, or having a sinister obsession with marrows? I have no idea how you can back a bloke who doesn't believe in anything and has being lying to you for years. That's up to you though, obviously. I won't hold it against you.
 
In 2020 Rachel Reeves made it clear Labour would not take Labour back into the EU. I know that because it was part of Labours October 2020 conference and any serious Labour supporter would have picked up on it

That’s 2 years of consistent Labour messaging and numerous Starmer interviews where he has ruled

There is no room for Starmer to now change his position. That means we DO NOT need to wait for a manifesto

If people want to believe he will take the UK back then 🤷🏻‍♂️

But if people really do believe their lives and others will improve but being inside the EU then we need to discuss if they wouldn’t be better placed voting the Tories who are apparently softening towards a Swiss style deal

If we don’t get closer to the eu then we’re screwed because we can’t get the kind of growth required to lift us out of a big recession coming given global deals are scraps of trade by comparison; anyone care to explain where growth comes from with labour ? (Who I desperately want in number 10)
 
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You already know where I stand, mate. And you know that I'm not the kind of bloke who would dislike you just because I disagree with you about Starmer.
I know that but accusations of delusion work both ways. Everyone has the opportunity to help force change for the better. I've decided how I'm going to use that opportunity and no amount of criticism on here will dissuade me. I'm 55 and the last 12 years have been garbage so I'm not prepared to prolong this shiit-show any longer 👍
 
I know that but accusations of delusion work both ways. Everyone has the opportunity to help force change for the better. I've decided how I'm going to use that opportunity and no amount of criticism on here will dissuade me. I'm 55 and the last 12 years have been garbage so I'm not prepared to prolong this shiit-show any longer 👍
To be fair it was you who used that word first. I just threw it back at you. We have the same goals. We just disagree on how to achieve them.
 
If we don’t get closer to the eu then we’re screwed because we can’t get the kind of growth required to lift us out of a big recession coming given global deals are scraps of trade by comparison; anyone care to explain where growth comes from with labour ? (Who I desperately want in number 10)

Can someone explain how we generate growth without greater eu trade. ?
 
If we don’t get closer to the eu then we’re screwed because we can’t get the kind of growth required to lift us out of a big recession coming given global deals are scraps of trade by comparison; anyone care to explain where growth comes from with labour ? (Who I desperately want in number 10)

Can someone explain how we generate growth without greater eu trade. ?
Starmer has already promised closer alignment with the EU. Of course the tories are going to try and scupper that by joining the Pacific trade agreement.
 
I'm hanging on to hope for now. He's got to be given a chance at least.
Why? What has he done, said, intimated, demonstrated, to you that makes you think anything will change?

We all know this: our bills will not come down, our mortgage repayments will not come down, the retirement age will not come down, tax avoidance and corporate theft will not come down or reduce or lessen.

It’s two cheeks of the same ****. He has not been slaughtered in the way Corbyn was slaughtered, or even Miliband TBH. Let’s be honest. And that’s be because of what’s he proposing, which is minimal changes to the status quo. He’s more set on tackling the left than he is the right. That’s why the left, or large elements of it, are slightly reluctant or hesitant towards Keir Starmer.

You can ask, expect, hope that the left unite behind him but I can fully see why loads of us are wary. Labour didn’t exactly unite behind the last bloke, did they. Despite an entirely reasonable, sensible and popular manifesto.
 
Why? What has he done, said, intimated, demonstrated, to you that makes you think anything will change?

We all know this: our bills will not come down, our mortgage repayments will not come down, the retirement age will not come down, tax avoidance and corporate theft will not come down or reduce or lessen.

It’s two cheeks of the same ****. He has not been slaughtered in the way Corbyn was slaughtered, or even Miliband TBH. Let’s be honest. And that’s be because of what’s he proposing, which is minimal changes to the status quo. He’s more set on tackling the left than he is the right. That’s why the left, or large elements of it, are slightly reluctant or hesitant towards Keir Starmer.

You can ask, expect, hope that the left unite behind him but I can fully see why loads of us are wary. Labour didn’t exactly unite behind the last bloke, did they. Despite an entirely reasonable, sensible and popular manifesto.
Look Corbyn's history, he's never coming back so you and those who are likeminded really need to get over it.
Starmer hasn't done anything because Labour isn't in power and hasn't been for 12 years. What part of that don't you understand?

It's pointless debating with you and others. Your mind's made up and it won't change unless you get your way. Are you a member? Who did you vote for in the leadership contest? What are you doing to change things other than sulking in the corner?

Are you saying that 60% of those who voted in Chester City yesterday are thick or something?

Leaders of the Opposition do not dictate Government policy, they have to be elected first.

The criticism of Starmer from some on here is ludicrous, someone the other day accused him of being an awful public speaker which is just juvenile.

The Labour Party doesn't belong to you, me or any individual. If you want to force change stop whining, get off your **** and do something positve.
 
It's claptrap like this that has previously driven people away from the Labour Party. You're stuck in the 70s mate, nobody is interested in outdated, regressive 'freedom for Tooting' shiite anymore.

You've got some bizarre views borofur. I presume this ones just contrariness for it's own sake. Are you really saying you don't see the institutions and mechanisms in the country that keep the majority of people in a class system? 7 of the last 9 PMs went to private schools and Oxford.

Here's a conundrum for you. If there's no "establishment" (or elite, or class system, or any phrase you'd prefer) why is Starmer saying he wants to tax private schools? If they don't give their pupils an unfair advantage over everyone else then they really are charitable institutions and just saving local authorities the trouble of educating those kids?
 
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