Keir Starmer

JackG said:
I am an economist, and of that persuasion. It's called modern monetary theory (MMT). It doesn't apply to every government - you need to have a sovereign currency, a flexible exchange rate and 'borrow' in your own currency (we do, Middlesbrough council or Italy doesn't). It's not consequence-free, either. Here's a clear 5-minute explainer from Stephanie Kelton
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Thanks for sharing that video, makes a lot of sense.

I think the majority of the UK population would struggle to get their head around that video though, which is the problem. When you have a country who's reading age is on average under that expected of a 9 year old trying to explain these concepts and them being understood is impossible.

You need to get power first and then implement these kind of measures, I just don't think you win an election on them as people are either unable or unwilling to want to understand it. I think this is why JC fell down, while I believe what him and his team wanted to do was achievable, it takes such a shift in policy people don't trust it and therefore don't vote for it.

I'm not a massive fan of Starmer but I can understand why he would go with minor alterations over big idea's at this moment, there's still a long time to go before the next election so there's no point spaffing your load this early.
 
brain_in_a_jar said:
Thanks for sharing that video, makes a lot of sense.

I think the majority of the UK population would struggle to get their head around that video though, which is the problem. When you have a country who's reading age is on average under that expected of a 9 year old trying to explain these concepts and them being understood is impossible.

You need to get power first and then implement these kind of measures, I just don't think you win an election on them as people are either unable or unwilling to want to understand it. I think this is why JC fell down, while I believe what him and his team wanted to do was achievable, it takes such a shift in policy people don't trust it and therefore don't vote for it.

I'm not a massive fan of Starmer but I can understand why he would go with minor alterations over big idea's at this moment, there's still a long time to go before the next election so there's no point spaffing your load this early.
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Using a reading age is a very poor way to measure intelligence and even vocabulary. My daughter is 10 and can read and understand most of the materials I read, outside of science and computing, because she doesn't have the knowledge to understand those subjects.

As a soundbite it sounds damning, but it really isn't. Most adults, well educated or otherwise have a working vocabulary of about 4000 words. Degree educated adults will know about 40,000 words, but still have a working vocabulary of about 4,000.

A 10 year old knows about 20,000 words and has a working vocabulary of about.... 4,000 words.

There does tend to be the opinion on this board that the public are stupid, they really aren't.
 
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Laughing said:
Using a reading age is a very poor way to measure intelligence and even vocabulary. My daughter is 10 and can read and understand most of the materials I read, outside of science and computing, because she doesn't have the knowledge to understand those subjects.

As a soundbite it sounds damning, but it really isn't. Most adults, well educated or otherwise have a working vocabulary of about 4000 words. Degree educated adults will know about 40,000 words, but still have a working vocabulary of about 4,000.

A 10 year old knows about 20,000 words and has a working vocabulary of about.... 4,000 words.

There does tend to be the opinion on this board that the public are stupid, they really aren't.
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I very much agree with your points re reading age, vocabulary and intelligence. There's a lot of truth in the essence of BIAJ's comment too. MMT is still heterodox. There's a lot of resistance to it from educated people who can read it easily enough but have difficulty with comprehension. A lot of this is because it's counter-intuitive - most people use some sort of analogy between household finances and public finances. This works fine with local councils but not for a sovereign issuer of fiat money. There are academics who've built careers around NOT believing it and are highly resistant to this way of thinking. It's still at the 'there might be something in this' stage, however.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
For me it's the Ronseal man
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That's very big of you mocking someone and characterising them based on their appearance.

Perhaps you could put up a photograph of yourself and let the board members form an opinion of you having never met you and based solely on what you look like?

Having bleated on for months about not knowing what Keir Starmer believes in or stands for I'm sure you'll be interested in the interview he gave to Sophy Ridge on Sky News this morning when he was asked the self-same question.

If you're not interested then I'll relay the main points for you:-
  • He wants to lead a Government that works with business to root-out and tackle inequality
  • He wants to change and build a better Britain
  • This will involve completely sweeping away the economic model of the last 10 years
  • Free movement has now been lost, blame the Tories, but a Labour Government will introduce a fairer and humane immigation system
  • He vehemently opposes the decriminalisation of drug use
  • The country is not in the right place on Trans-rights. Trans-rights are human rights and he wants to go further with legislation
  • He's a 'Values led' person and it's up to others to determine if that means he is 'woke'
  • He's patriotic
Given your allegiances I'm certain the above won't do it for you but at least you can give up your complaint that you don't know what he stands for or believes in.

Catching up on a number of threads after my time away from the board it's quite disheartening to see that the usual extreme right wing and republican posters now seem to have been joined by Marxists to form an unholy alliance of general nastiness.
 
BoroFur said:
That's very big of you mocking someone and characterising them based on their appearance.

Perhaps you could put up a photograph of yourself and let the board members form an opinion of you having never met you and based solely on what you look like?

Having bleated on for months about not knowing what Keir Starmer believes in or stands for I'm sure you'll be interested in the interview he gave to Sophy Ridge on Sky News this morning when he was asked the self-same question.

If you're not interested then I'll relay the main points for you:-
  • He wants to lead a Government that works with business to root-out and tackle inequality
  • He wants to change and build a better Britain
  • This will involve completely sweeping away the economic model of the last 10 years
  • Free movement has now been lost, blame the Tories, but a Labour Government will introduce a fairer and humane immigation system
  • He vehemently opposes the decriminalisation of drug use
  • The country is not in the right place on Trans-rights. Trans-rights are human rights and he wants to go further with legislation
  • He's a 'Values led' person and it's up to others to determine if that means he is 'woke'
  • He's patriotic
Given your allegiances I'm certain the above won't do it for you but at least you can give up your complaint that you don't know what he stands for or believes in.

Catching up on a number of threads after my time away from the board it's quite disheartening to see that the usual extreme right wing and republican posters now seem to have been joined by Marxists to form an unholy alliance of general nastiness.
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I have always said the far right and far left are the same.
 
BoroFur said:
That's very big of you mocking someone and characterising them based on their appearance.

Perhaps you could put up a photograph of yourself and let the board members form an opinion of you having never met you and based solely on what you look like?

Having bleated on for months about not knowing what Keir Starmer believes in or stands for I'm sure you'll be interested in the interview he gave to Sophy Ridge on Sky News this morning when he was asked the self-same question.

If you're not interested then I'll relay the main points for you:-
  • He wants to lead a Government that works with business to root-out and tackle inequality
  • He wants to change and build a better Britain
  • This will involve completely sweeping away the economic model of the last 10 years
  • Free movement has now been lost, blame the Tories, but a Labour Government will introduce a fairer and humane immigation system
  • He vehemently opposes the decriminalisation of drug use
  • The country is not in the right place on Trans-rights. Trans-rights are human rights and he wants to go further with legislation
  • He's a 'Values led' person and it's up to others to determine if that means he is 'woke'
  • He's patriotic
Given your allegiances I'm certain the above won't do it for you but at least you can give up your complaint that you don't know what he stands for or believes in.

Catching up on a number of threads after my time away from the board it's quite disheartening to see that the usual extreme right wing and republican posters now seem to have been joined by Marxists to form an unholy alliance of general nastiness.
Click to expand...
It was a light hearted joke; you may have missed it but many people behaved the same and worse toward the Magic Grandad, including various PM's in front of the TV cameras at PMQ's.
As for the points you have posted, they are nothing more than platitudes.
i am more interested in why he failed to call out a white supremacist on live national radio.
Why he shielded his funders until the leadership results were announced.
Why he is suspending left wing Jews from the party and denying any left wing Jewish groups from engagement with the Labour Party and from being involved with anti-Semitism education. This can only be delivered by right wing groups - BoD who are not Labour, and JLM who are mostly not Jewish.
Why he is so weak on BLM.
Why he says nothing about Islamophobia.

Oh, and I took my cue from Billyzin but you seem to have missed that.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
It was a light hearted joke; you may have missed it but many people behaved the same and worse toward the Magic Grandad, including various PM's in front of the TV cameras at PMQ's.
As for the points you have posted, they are nothing more than platitudes.
i am more interested in why he failed to call out a white supremacist on live national radio.
Why he shielded his funders until the leadership results were announced.
Why he is suspending left wing Jews from the party and denying any left wing Jewish groups from engagement with the Labour Party and from being involved with anti-Semitism education. This can only be delivered by right wing groups - BoD who are not Labour, and JLM who are mostly not Jewish.
Why he is so weak on BLM.
Why he says nothing about Islamophobia.

Oh, and I took my cue from Billyzin but you seem to have missed that.
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You wanted to know what he stands for and what he believes in. He's told you but you dismiss his views as platitudes and instead look for another stick to beat him with.

He'll never be the person you want him to be and that's fair enough.
 
I am probably the least politically motivated person on the board, but a couple of observations.

I think that Starmer is probably doing a good job in not making the Covid situation political. He states that he disagrees with some actions, but if the situation is being driven by the scientists then he is best to keep quiet. The time to call out the government is when he has some scientific evidence that is not being used, or when there is a review and that the tories have not taken and used the advice. All of which will happen in good time.

Stand off and let the tories implode. I think they are more likely to self destruct when we get out of lockdown, by their own previous actions they will need to attempt to pay back some of the borrowing. Or will they follow a different economic model. Let them implode and offer a different vision for the future at that point.

Most of the public are too busy with their own situation to be bothered with party politics at this present moment. A fight between parties will just make the situation worse in the eyes of the public. Be patient and wait for the policies until after the tories have shown their hand.
 
BoroFur said:
You wanted to know what he stands for and what he believes in. He's told you but you dismiss his views as platitudes and instead look for another stick to beat him with.

He'll never be the person you want him to be and that's fair enough.
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They are platitudes. Most, if not all of them could have been said by Boris Johnson. Would you believe him?
 
BoroFur said:
That's very big of you mocking someone and characterising them based on their appearance.

Perhaps you could put up a photograph of yourself and let the board members form an opinion of you having never met you and based solely on what you look like?

Having bleated on for months about not knowing what Keir Starmer believes in or stands for I'm sure you'll be interested in the interview he gave to Sophy Ridge on Sky News this morning when he was asked the self-same question.

If you're not interested then I'll relay the main points for you:-
  • He wants to lead a Government that works with business to root-out and tackle inequality
  • He wants to change and build a better Britain
  • This will involve completely sweeping away the economic model of the last 10 years
  • Free movement has now been lost, blame the Tories, but a Labour Government will introduce a fairer and humane immigation system
  • He vehemently opposes the decriminalisation of drug use
  • The country is not in the right place on Trans-rights. Trans-rights are human rights and he wants to go further with legislation
  • He's a 'Values led' person and it's up to others to determine if that means he is 'woke'
  • He's patriotic
Given your allegiances I'm certain the above won't do it for you but at least you can give up your complaint that you don't know what he stands for or believes in.

Catching up on a number of threads after my time away from the board it's quite disheartening to see that the usual extreme right wing and republican posters now seem to have been joined by Marxists to form an unholy alliance of general nastiness.
Click to expand...
Some interesting stuff in there. Key now is to flesh them out into policy.
 
I just seen an interview with him seems to be changing tack again now stating that the gvt need to go faster with the vaccine roll out. Interesting as we are one of the fastest nations in the world and have today announced they are bringing forward to July the vaccine being offered to all adults. Hard to take him seriously with comments like that.
 
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