Kieron Scott

Gaz your like a bloke who won't believe his partner is cheating unless you catch em at it despite all your friends saying the same thing they are cheating. The media in Drury confirmed it ,Scott's nailed him as far as he can without naming him directly and results and attitude on the pitch strongly suggest it as well. You simply are refusing to believe because you don't want to believe it.
 
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Interesting, haha!

I do still believe the narrative that Wilder got disenchanted and his eye started wandering because he asked for a table and they bought him a lamp though.

Maybe even as early as after January, which reflects very badly on Wilder. But he’s not a habitual wanderer who’s only in jobs for a few months and is always looking for the next opportunity.

The first things he said when he took over was all about looking for a medium term project, all his other jobs have been medium term projects. His stock was very high - LMA Manager of the Year - when he took this job and you could tell by the way he talked that he’d thought long and hard about the right job to take, because his reputation could only be damaged by taking the wrong one. You don’t see him going for Steve Bruce kind of jobs, and because of his system he’s not a manager who will make an instant impact as a motivator like Warnock. We used to have the most patient chairman in football so it’s part of the attraction of managing Boro and why we can punch above our weight, that you get time.

No-one comes out of this looking good, but I think it’s a case of Wilder being quickly disappointed by something behind the scenes, and eventually Gibson, Scott and Wilder couldn’t work together. Which might explain why we didn’t spend the Spence / Tav windfall in the summer, which will have ***ed off Wilder even more. There’s obviously been a huge breakdown in trust though.
 
Why? McLaren went for three other jobs while managing boro. We ended up with a cup, 2 seasons in Europe and a uefa cup final. Sometimes you have to be pragmatic in football. If we employ a manager with a reputation for fancy **** football other clubs are going to try and poach them. Managers aren't going to show loyalty to a club if the club is sacking them the second results turn.
Not that wilder wasn't being an ****.

I think you answered your own question, despite having his head turned on multiple occasions McLaren still got the best out of the players and had success on the pitch.

It seems to me that as soon as Wilder wasn't allowed to go to Burnley, he spat his dummy out, fell out with people and allowed our form to fall off a cliff.
 
Gaz your like a bloke who won't believe his partner is cheating unless you catch em at it despite all your friends saying the same they are cheating. The media in Drury confirmed it ,Scott's nailed him as far as he can without naming him directly and results and attitude on the pitch strongly suggest it as well. You simply are refusing to believe because you don't want to believe it.
It’s not the same at all. We have various different theories from different people on this thread alone

He applied for the job
He courted them
He asked to speak to them but was denied

We don’t know that any of it is actually true. Is drury actually connected to anyone within the club or is just another opinion
 
This is purely my opinion and reading between the lines. I think when Wilder was appointed both parties agreed on the way things would work, it seems it's a 'recruitment committee' that makes the decisions on the transfers. I feel the first window in January maybe things didn't go to plan and it caused some friction possibly the 'committee' agreed on player A or B but ended up with player E, which was the start of the rift. This may also of had Wilder wanting to take more control of transfers (he was manager not head coach, us now employing a head coach rather than a manager could indicate this). With the cup run it also got his name in the headlines again and judging by his interviews he isn't short on confidence and thought maybe this could be his opportunity to rather get more control of transfers or move to a prem club. When his name got mentioned for the Burnley job the club could of asked him to come out and say he wasn't interested but he used that to get guarantees in the transfer front. From that point though especially with the downturn in form and the rumour mill in full swing the club could of felt like it was being held at ransom(you also need to remember Wilder was probably one of the first main decisions in the Scott era, and his reputation was in ways linked to how successful Wilder would be). Come the summer by reports Wilder wanted players to make an instant impact but the club was following a transfer model of buying player with a future resale value (which I think Scott was brought in to oversee, after the club lost a few high cost players for free over the last couple of years) and making use of the academy(Carrick has mentioned several times he is a big fan of giving young players a chance "if they are good enough they are old enough"). In interviews you could see and hear Wilder getting more and more frustrated. At that point the relationship was virtually irreparable but Wilder wouldn't walk and the club was reluctant to sack him due to financial reasons so the club and Wilder was at a standoff to see who would blink first. It probably came to a head after Wilders last match and the club's poor form and Wilders refusal to change things. The meeting was probably something along the lines of Wilder blamed recruitment and his system worked it was the players at his disposal which wasn't up to standard, but the club told Wilder he has players at his disposal he isn't using and he wasn't trying to change things to get results. So the club made the decision to terminate his contract(could of been an argument and something was said or something new came to light about Wilder asking his agent to look for another job for him etc etc). What springs to mind for me and is that both Wilder and Warnock both had things to say about recruitment and both would be considered "old school" managers, we have replaced them with a head coach which is an indication of the direction we are wanting to move and fits in with the way the club is progressing with a director of football.
This is all obviously just my opinion, educated guesses, reading between the lines and some pure guesswork, but this is my take on the situation.
 
Scott isnt in the media much (I get the feeling he would want to) the strategy seems to be to leave the talking to the Coach or Manager. From yesterdays performance he said two things only both put to bed numerous threads on here about recruitmant and CW head turns.... He sounds a guy who isnt afraid to call a spade and would rub certain types of personality up .... the Dominic Cummings of MFC?
 
It’s not the same at all. We have various different theories from different people on this thread alone

He applied for the job
He courted them
He asked to speak to them but was denied

We don’t know that any of it is actually true. Is drury actually connected to anyone within the club or is just another opinion
Drury without a doubt gets the inside track just by proximity to all the players and staff. Ali used to, I was lucky enough to knock about with him a bit and he told some magnificent stories.
 
This is purely my opinion and reading between the lines. I think when Wilder was appointed both parties agreed on the way things would work, it seems it's a 'recruitment committee' that makes the decisions on the transfers. I feel the first window in January maybe things didn't go to plan and it caused some friction possibly the 'committee' agreed on player A or B but ended up with player E, which was the start of the rift. This may also of had Wilder wanting to take more control of transfers (he was manager not head coach, us now employing a head coach rather than a manager could indicate this). With the cup run it also got his name in the headlines again and judging by his interviews he isn't short on confidence and thought maybe this could be his opportunity to rather get more control of transfers or move to a prem club. When his name got mentioned for the Burnley job the club could of asked him to come out and say he wasn't interested but he used that to get guarantees in the transfer front. From that point though especially with the downturn in form and the rumour mill in full swing the club could of felt like it was being held at ransom(you also need to remember Wilder was probably one of the first main decisions in the Scott era, and his reputation was in ways linked to how successful Wilder would be). Come the summer by reports Wilder wanted players to make an instant impact but the club was following a transfer model of buying player with a future resale value (which I think Scott was brought in to oversee, after the club lost a few high cost players for free over the last couple of years) and making use of the academy(Carrick has mentioned several times he is a big fan of giving young players a chance "if they are good enough they are old enough"). In interviews you could see and hear Wilder getting more and more frustrated. At that point the relationship was virtually irreparable but Wilder wouldn't walk and the club was reluctant to sack him due to financial reasons so the club and Wilder was at a standoff to see who would blink first. It probably came to a head after Wilders last match and the club's poor form and Wilders refusal to change things. The meeting was probably something along the lines of Wilder blamed recruitment and his system worked it was the players at his disposal which wasn't up to standard, but the club told Wilder he has players at his disposal he isn't using and he wasn't trying to change things to get results. So the club made the decision to terminate his contract(could of been an argument and something was said or something new came to light about Wilder asking his agent to look for another job for him etc etc). What springs to mind for me and is that both Wilder and Warnock both had things to say about recruitment and both would be considered "old school" managers, we have replaced them with a head coach which is an indication of the direction we are wanting to move and fits in with the way the club is progressing with a director of football.
This is all obviously just my opinion, educated guesses, reading between the lines and some pure guesswork, but this is my take on the situation.
It’s as good as the other theory’s.

People think I’m defending wilder or whatever but I’m not. I’m glad we’ve moved on from.

Whatever the reason, I think you are right there was definitely a breakdown. Whether that was through wilder contacting another club, through the transfer policy or whatever the reason was we’ll never know.

People saying carrick is bought into the model etc, don’t you think wilder would have said he was bought into this time last year?

The worry is that it’s the way communicate and go about our business that may have upset the apple cart. Will we find ourselves in that position again. I hope not and I hope it was wilder head turning, but other that people claiming they are itk we don’t know

I honestly think there a lot of confirmation bias when it comes to wilder. People want to believe the Burnley stuff because they were all peeved last year he didn’t bury it. His comments were over analysed at the time and everything that might have pointed to him going there since is almost taking as gospel

Scott’s comment doesn’t prove anything other that he wants someone here to bring stability. For whatever reason he didn’t feel that with wilder and it could have been a breakdown in relationship or he applied for another job. No one really knows though even though they claim they do

Can someone point drury’s comments to me. I don’t listen to him
 
It’s as good as the other theory’s.

People think I’m defending wilder or whatever but I’m not. I’m glad we’ve moved on from.

Whatever the reason, I think you are right there was definitely a breakdown. Whether that was through wilder contacting another club, through the transfer policy or whatever the reason was we’ll never know.

People saying carrick is bought into the model etc, don’t you think wilder would have said he was bought into this time last year?

The worry is that it’s the way communicate and go about our business that may have upset the apple cart. Will we find ourselves in that position again. I hope not and I hope it was wilder head turning, but other that people claiming they are itk we don’t know

I honestly think there a lot of confirmation bias when it comes to wilder. People want to believe the Burnley stuff because they were all peeved last year he didn’t bury it. His comments were over analysed at the time and everything that might have pointed to him going there since is almost taking as gospel

Scott’s comment doesn’t prove anything other that he wants someone here to bring stability. For whatever reason he didn’t feel that with wilder and it could have been a breakdown in relationship or he applied for another job. No one really knows though even though they claim they do

Can someone point drury’s comments to me. I don’t listen to him
Drury said there was interest from both sides in the Burnley position
 
People saying carrick is bought into the model etc, don’t you think wilder would have said he was bought into this time last year?
The part I take from that though, Carrick isn't the manager he is head coach, and it was made clear in the press conference he was head coach. I know that is playing with words and I could almost be accused of being pedantic on the wording. But head coach implies that he is more in charge of picking the team and coaching the players, being a manager implies that you have overall responsibility for the first team including transfers. I'm not saying Carrick won't have any say in transfers, and I'm not saying Wilder didn't initially agree to these terms but for what ever reason(maybe it was the perceived failure of the recruitment team) after the January transfer window and certainly in the summer window he wasn't happy with this arrangement.
 
Mcgree - definitley fits the bill of the type of player we are looking to sign long term, I guess Wilder must have liked him because he played
Balogun & Conolly - Wilder openly said they were last minute loan deals when other deals didn't come off. He clearly didn't fancy Balogun, when he scored 2 in 3 games, finally hit some form, Wilder dropped him, then later stated he didn't want to be here.
Connolly - Who knows why Wilder played him as much as he did, my feeling is he was making a point to the club - this is what you get when you sign s**t players I didn't want
Boyd-Munce - hasn't got anywhere near the first team picture still to this day

I think given our January league position, Wilder would have expected a lot more than he got to achieve 'his' goal of getting himself back in the premier league as soon as possible, at that point it looks like he started to look elsewhere to back in the PL.
Balogun wasn't a last minute loan deal...he wanted him when he was at Sheff Utd
 
For Gaz s benefit and any others on the fence, you tube Simon Jordan on Chris Wilder,
This being whilst Wilder was still with us, he lays open his opinion on Wilder , informing the listener
of numerous instances of Wilders associates within the football web,( and the word he used was "indexing " ) putting him forward for managerial positions. He pointedly says Wilder was invited by Burnley to attend a midweek game, which he did. He also went for the empty Stoke seat.
Im presuming if what Jordan said was slander then Wilders people would straight away issue legal threats and demand an apology and retraction.
Plus and more importantly if Jordan knew , then so did Gibson,
This fits with all the narratives
 
Looking for an opportunity- he could be looking/talking/applying/being moody.

It could apply to anything. It doesn’t mean he actually made contact with any club
Sorry to butt in but didn't Wilder even say in the presser trying to clear up his mess post Burnley that he was wanting to help out Alan Pace (Burnley Chairman). He actually named him.
 
His comments were over analysed at the time and everything that might have pointed to him going there since is almost taking as gospel

If my wife asks me if I've been unfaithful to her and I say that 'You don't have to ask me that question do you' what is she going to think?

If I wasn't having an affair I'd just say no of course I'm not.
 
For Gaz s benefit and any others on the fence, you tube Simon Jordan on Chris Wilder,
This being whilst Wilder was still with us, he lays open his opinion on Wilder , informing the listener
of numerous instances of Wilders associates within the football web,( and the word he used was "indexing " ) putting him forward for managerial positions. He pointedly says Wilder was invited by Burnley to attend a midweek game, which he did. He also went for the empty Stoke seat.
Im presuming if what Jordan said was slander then Wilders people would straight away issue legal threats and demand an apology and retraction.
Plus and more importantly if Jordan knew , then so did Gibson,
This fits with all the narratives
This the Simon’s Jordon who claimed wilder was in the directors box, and it transpired it was the Chelsea game before we played them
 
If my wife asks me if I've been unfaithful to her and I say that 'You don't have to ask me that question do you' what is she going to think?

If I wasn't having an affair I'd just say no of course I'm not.
See that’s the thing we as human beings we interpret and react differently

One person who cheats will categorically come out and lie and deny it others will respond in the manner how can she ask me that in a defensive manner

Just because you respond in one way doesn’t mean everyone else will respond that way
 
The part I take from that though, Carrick isn't the manager he is head coach, and it was made clear in the press conference he was head coach. I know that is playing with words and I could almost be accused of being pedantic on the wording. But head coach implies that he is more in charge of picking the team and coaching the players, being a manager implies that you have overall responsibility for the first team including transfers. I'm not saying Carrick won't have any say in transfers, and I'm not saying Wilder didn't initially agree to these terms but for what ever reason(maybe it was the perceived failure of the recruitment team) after the January transfer window and certainly in the summer window he wasn't happy with this arrangement.

You raise a good point and here is a little bit of my concerns around

And I think carrick said it’s just a name and it’s about the club and he’s a club man pulling in the same direction

The worry is if Scott gets above his station or bauser is a blocker to deals is the club pulling in the same direction. I’d this the reason for breakdown previously. Who knows.

Scott’s demeanour in the press conference didn’t look great. I don’t want to overanalyse it but he wasn’t exactly buzzing and felt like he wanted to set the record straight from his point of view rather than focus ahead
 
This the Simon’s Jordon who claimed wilder was in the directors box, and it transpired it was the Chelsea game before we played them
Jordan didnt infer to it being the Chelsea game, which was a month before Dyche being sacked.
However smoke and mirrors and all that.
It doesnt tho address the continual chatter Jordan referenced " indexing" by people attached to Wilder
 
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