Labour 10 points ahead of Tories...

festa5

Well-known member
Festa you are just projecting your own ideals there mate. Plenty of people don't care about society.

They care about how much tax they pay to support people who won't or can't work. They care about single mothers scrounging from the state.

They have a sense of entitlement themselves, believing they got where they are with hard graft. They probably, largely believe that they are in some way, exceptional.

That they don't understand good fortune and opportunity have little to do with hard work isn't going to change because Johnson is corrupt, I am afraid.

All that said the tories lose the next election, of that I am certain.

Oh I might well be. But you asked for a reason why those who believe in Tory ideology wouldn't vote Tory at the next election.

Although I agree. Those who buy into everything you've listed are unlikely to be that bothered about corruption or lies or the behaviour of the government. Certainly not bothered enough to withhold their vote out of principle.
 

TeessideCleveland

Well-known member
As with all polls it rather depends on how the question is phrased.

Most tory voters, I would assume, think Johnson will be gone and a more able and less corrupt leader will be in place by the next election.

If their ideology is tory, why wouldn't they intend to vote tory.
As Laughing says never underestimate the Tories' ability to get their vote out.
I hope I'm wrong, but feel that a lot of the 'don't knows' are 'shy tories' - who will see the possibility of Labour getting in and stick their cross next to the Tory candidate. Which let's face it they were always going to do.
It would be interesting to see how the 'don't knows' voted previously.
A change of leader has worked a few times before for the Tories.
That said Labour are certainly 'back in the game'
 

gregorgregorovich

Well-known member
Maybe those with a conscience and capable of critical thinking will realise that although Johnson is head idiot in chief, the rest of the party have propped him up, covered for him and defended him despite almost certainly knowing he's been lying through his teeth non stop since he took the job.

That's why they wouldn't (or shouldn't) intend to vote Tory even if they remove the clown.
Festa you are just projecting your own ideals there mate. Plenty of people don't care about society.

They care about how much tax they pay to support people who won't or can't work. They care about single mothers scrounging from the state.

They have a sense of entitlement themselves, believing they got where they are with hard graft. They probably, largely believe that they are in some way, exceptional.

That they don't understand good fortune and opportunity have little to do with hard work isn't going to change because Johnson is corrupt, I am afraid.

All that said the tories lose the next election, of that I am certain.
I see what you mean Laughing, I'm just surprised the percentage is that high. Maybe it's the you can fool some of the people all of the time scenario or there really are that many who as you put it, don't care about society. I'm still shaking my head mind.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
I wonder how many polls in a row and for how long have now shown a Labour lead? I wouldn't mind betting its around 3 months and a consistent widening trend.
 

gizasqueezemister

Active member
Even with the goal as wide open as it’s ever been I can’t help thinking Labour are in danger of putting it just past the post by sticking with Starmer. Or worse - hitting the corner flag if Rayner took the helm. To make sure of the result a Burnham type is needed. Someone who can connect with the wider populous and not just those party people that vote red regardless of policies or personnel
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
This lead by Labour is now massive, and should be beyond anyone's wildest dreams after the last election. People having digs at Starmer need to get a grip of reality. It's like whinging at our manager when we're 10-0 up, as you think it should be 11-0, when last week you were getting beat 5-0 and saying it's all fine, it's ludicrous.

When are some of you going to realise that when a party is intent on blowing themselves up, you should just let them get on with it and just keep handing them more explosives. You have to let their voters realise of their own accord that they've made a mistake, and Starmer is letting them do that. They're stubborn fools, and labour repeatedly highlighting this wouldn't help, it would likely make the lead worse. People really hate being told they were wrong, especially Brexit voters, Tories and far right nut jobs.

All Labour need to now do is to target the centre, and those voters who could be swayed, and they're doing exactly that. Then if they get in power then that's the time to start to change things, you can change zero when you're not in power.

Some of you mention foot on the gas, but we're already at 120mph, and the Tories are in reverse, just save the fuel for when it's needed (the last year coming up to the election).

The Tories could swing it back and get to 290 seats and it wouldn't be enough, as they've burnt every bridge that there is, and have zero chance of a coalition with one of the main backup parties. Most of us would have took the Tories only getting 290 seats.

Not that I'm saying the Tories will swing it back that far, as there's still dark days ahead with Brexit, but some Tories will go back, so voting intention will probably go back a bit, but don't wet the bed when it does, they won't get in power next election, and that would be a great result.
 

BoroFur

Well-known member
Well said Andy.

People talking about Burnham 'types', missing open goals, hitting the corner flag etc. appear to have very little knowledge of how a democracy works.
 

gizasqueezemister

Active member
This lead by Labour is now massive, and should be beyond anyone's wildest dreams after the last election. People having digs at Starmer need to get a grip of reality. It's like whinging at our manager when we're 10-0 up, as you think it should be 11-0, when last week you were getting beat 5-0 and saying it's all fine, it's ludicrous.

When are some of you going to realise that when a party is intent on blowing themselves up, you should just let them get on with it and just keep handing them more explosives. You have to let their voters realise of their own accord that they've made a mistake, and Starmer is letting them do that. They're stubborn fools, and labour repeatedly highlighting this wouldn't help, it would likely make the lead worse. People really hate being told they were wrong, especially Brexit voters, Tories and far right nut jobs.

All Labour need to now do is to target the centre, and those voters who could be swayed, and they're doing exactly that. Then if they get in power then that's the time to start to change things, you can change zero when you're not in power.

Some of you mention foot on the gas, but we're already at 120mph, and the Tories are in reverse, just save the fuel for when it's needed (the last year coming up to the election).

The Tories could swing it back and get to 290 seats and it wouldn't be enough, as they've burnt every bridge that there is, and have zero chance of a coalition with one of the main backup parties. Most of us would have took the Tories only getting 290 seats.

Not that I'm saying the Tories will swing it back that far, as there's still dark days ahead with Brexit, but some Tories will go back, so voting intention will probably go back a bit, but don't wet the bed when it does, they won't get in power next election, and that would be a great result.
120 mph…. Really ? There’s an awful lot of work to do yet. For starters the floating voters need convincing Labour can manage the economy. I hear your confidence but I don't think this message board is a good barometer for the rest of the county and I think there’s still a hell of a way to go on that front. Starmer didn’t help last weekend by fudging questions on NHS funding. Saying it will be in Wes’s plan simply won’t cut it for some. The devils in the detail and very soon people will want to see those details if they are going to turn their backs on the Tory’s.
 

Ziggy

Well-known member
Charlie Whelton (Liberty) While everyone is distracted by parties in number 10

They’re taking what’s left of our democracy apart in Parliament.

“ Pretty grim day today in Parliament as the House of Commons debates introducing voter ID, potentially disenfranchising 2 million people, while the House of Lords debates curbing the right to protest through the Policing Bill”
 

Oooo

Well-known member
we really need to be rid of the Conservatives soon as they destgroy everything good about our country. There is not much left, but the last two good things: the NHA and the BBC are now being targetted
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
120 mph…. Really ? There’s an awful lot of work to do yet. For starters the floating voters need convincing Labour can manage the economy. I hear your confidence but I don't think this message board is a good barometer for the rest of the county and I think there’s still a hell of a way to go on that front. Starmer didn’t help last weekend by fudging questions on NHS funding. Saying it will be in Wes’s plan simply won’t cut it for some. The devils in the detail and very soon people will want to see those details if they are going to turn their backs on the Tory’s.
Ok, call it 112mph, for the number of seats Labour are projected to gain, they've gained ~90% of the seats the Tories are projected to lose, I don't ever remember such a turnaround in such a short space of time.

For comparison to the last elections:
Tories had 365 seats, and Labour 202
The one before that 317 v 262
The one before that 330 v 232

The Tories are in reverse, and Labour are projected 314 seats, and that doesn't even really factor for any seats Labour could gain in Scotland (where the Tories have zero chance of gaining any). If Scotland expects a Labour majority in England, then some seats could go to Labour, if they expect a Tory majority then they will dig in with the SNP.

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Centrists don't need convincing Labour can manage the economy, as the Tories have fully proven they can absolutely destroy it, in a short space of time, just look where we were with growth in the G7 pre Brexit, and look where we are now, we're battered. We all know that the best way of recovering the economy is to join the SM and CU, but putting this in a manifesto would be a bad idea, as it would put off the brexit voters, they probably wouldn't even realise on their own, but the Tory media will drill it in. We could pay for access to the SM mind, sort of like Norway, which would get by easier.

Most of the people I know across the country are quite centrist, and most have voted Labour, Lib Dem and Tory in the past, but most of them are Labour all the way now, largely due to Tory **** ups but also they don't have to fear Corbyn (which was a misaligned fear, but still happened).

Fudging questions on funding is nothing compared to what else is going on the Tory world, so I think for now Labour just need to stay vague, and provide no ammo. Albeit it's hard for the Tories to shoot when they have both hands on a shovel and are digging a trench.

You're right about the devil being in the detail, but most are not clued up enough to understand the detail, and everyone expects that there's going to be some pain to come, with paying off the pandemic and trying to get growth back on track, the good thing (from a voting point of view) is that growth will likely lag the EU for the next couple of years at least, which should tie in nicely with the election.

Be interesting to see what the Tories don't do when the energy price cap comes off in April, that will be a massive kick in the nuts to them, and then it will get further realised next winter. I feel so sorry for those who are elderly and skint, as their gas bills are going to be bonkers next winter, and the Tories will do nothing about it.
 
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