DonTheKing
Well-known member
So you're happy with men hitting women?
Male Boxers fighting Females in the Olympics
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SmallTown
Well-known member
My point was, like the OP, you're getting angry because you're not thinking about whether we mean DSD or Trans people. And therefore you THINK I'm happy with men hitting women but only from a misunderstanding of the situation
king_hellfire
Well-known member
Sex segregation in sports doesn’t matter with children, so no, I wouldn’t get them tested before allowing them to take part in sports. Once puberty hits however, there will be a noticeable difference between the sexes and there would be no need to take a test to prove the strength and power differences.
Also, we’re lucky enough to live in a developed society where any DSDs will be picked up at birth, or soon after, so there will be no doubt which sex my child would be.
Centralscrutinizer
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Acklam_Lad
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I’m looking at pics of this lass and other than a bit of extra height and maybe a bit extra muscle I am very much of the belief that she is a woman and I wouldn’t have thought anything about it had I not heard about her potential XY chromosome test and the raised Testosterone.
She doesn’t look like a man physically when you compare her to the likes of Caster Semenya who it is very evident has extremely high testosterone levels and thus a much more masculine appearance and advantage.
It’s a tough one and not easy to sort out
She doesn’t look like a man physically when you compare her to the likes of Caster Semenya who it is very evident has extremely high testosterone levels and thus a much more masculine appearance and advantage.
It’s a tough one and not easy to sort out
DonTheKing
Well-known member
But he's a man competing against women, there's no misunderstanding.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
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Thanks for that, it's a must listen.All you need to know about where we're at is here.
Paris 2024: Males Are About To Fight in Women's Boxing. How Did We Get Here? | The Real Science of Sport Podcast
Controversy in Paris as biological males compete in women's boxing and football. We explore the issuesshows.acast.com
Warning. Contains lots of useful information so might not be suitable for FMTTM
We're in the early years of this and it's important not to shut down debate and science because they don't agree with the current idealogical discourse.
Duffman
Well-known member
So again - these women who were born women, have lived their whole life as women, have consistently boxed as women - without great success in the past it would seem but are now being deemed to be ‘men’? Clearly they are not men. If they have taken drugs to enhance their performance the authorities should have reviewed any blood tests etc. and if they failed to pass them disqualified them. They haven’t. Not sure why anger is aimed as the two women concerned. They were selected by their countries, passed any vetting as established by the Olympic Committee in preference to the normal use of the IBA for such things so they crack on and box alongside the other women. Am I missing something here?
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
Why the anger, aren't people allowed a different view?
Maybe listen to the podcast that was put up, listen to the questions being asked by other competitors.
Were they born women or born male with certain women's characteristics?
Expat Smoggie
Well-known member
It’s all been very convenient I would say on how women’s rights have changed from maybe 30 years ago. There’s no denying that the toilet fiasco and how women are now forced to use a coed toilet for instance was maybe the starting point for gender neutrality. Ok it’s not every where we see a unisex loo in the public domain, but basically it’s been a strategy in forcing people to accept gender neutrality and has maybe been the stepping stone to all things where we are now with gender identity.
Alwaysaborolad
Well-known member
1st August 2024 is the day that violence against women from a man became a legitimate olympic sport, that poor woman boxer trained for this once every 4yr event, only for some man to take her dreams away.... sad sad sad world...
It's a very difficult situation because even if you fully believe that trans women are equal to women then I think it is fine to think there is a difference between how they are treated at work, in healthcare, education etc and how they are treated in sport. The women's category is one to allow women a chance to compete against each other without men. The obvious solution would be to do away with segregation of any sort but nobody really wants that so there has to be a line drawn somewhere and I think it is fairer for the vast majority of that line is slightly different to how it is in other environments.
Duffman
Well-known member
No anger anywhere in my post? Just reasoned argument , no podcasts or sexy diagrams, just my own humble opinion.
I just don’t get how these women who were born as female (that’s their legitimate sex) then lived their life as female, competed as females up to now, bar one competition when the IBA would not allow their entry based on test results, but who it would appear have not failed any entry tests for this competition are;
A) now being described as men
B) having followed all the rules, being vilified for living their dream of boxing in the olympics
Strange world we live in.
Doom_On_Horseback
Well-known member
Born a woman. I don’t think this is disputed right?
Also represents a country where changing gender is forbidden.
Also represents a country where changing gender is forbidden.
Ravshoutsatbeck
Well-known member
I've been reading more (and tried listening to that podcast, but felt it was coming from a place of bias).
There are stories that she was born female and had to fight against bias against women in contact sports as she was growing up.
She competed for many years without any controversy - is good but not great - today was 5th stoppage in 50 fights - lots of support for her from fellow boxers.
Last year got excluded from the finals of World boxing championships with a "gender recognition check". There is rumor that this was an XY chromosome.
The IOC say she continues to meet their standards. The outcome of today's fight was an outlier in her career and you wonder how much the controversy got to the Italian fighter.
There is debate to be had in my opinion about the involvement of those born/raised female and then found to have DSD competing in women's contact sports.
Cannot understand how it has been appropriated by those people who are anti trans involvement in sport. Two completely different arguments in my opinion.
There are stories that she was born female and had to fight against bias against women in contact sports as she was growing up.
She competed for many years without any controversy - is good but not great - today was 5th stoppage in 50 fights - lots of support for her from fellow boxers.
Last year got excluded from the finals of World boxing championships with a "gender recognition check". There is rumor that this was an XY chromosome.
The IOC say she continues to meet their standards. The outcome of today's fight was an outlier in her career and you wonder how much the controversy got to the Italian fighter.
There is debate to be had in my opinion about the involvement of those born/raised female and then found to have DSD competing in women's contact sports.
Cannot understand how it has been appropriated by those people who are anti trans involvement in sport. Two completely different arguments in my opinion.
SmallTown
Well-known member
Is she though? Given she's fought in the woman's category for years and no one has complained
SmallTown
Well-known member
I would agree with you about trans women in sports. The issue is this isn't a trains woman. It's someone who was born a woman and has competed as a woman her entire career
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