One Pfizer vaccination 52% effective after 12 days (according to an article in El País in English from 13 January 2021)

[Liamo]

Even though these seniors tested positive, as the article points out all but one of them was asymptomatic, so the single dose of the vaccine may very well have done enough to help them avoid a serious infection.

We should also note that it's only the Pfizer vaccine where there's no actual data to support a delayed second dose.

With the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, there were enough trial participants that didn't receive the second dose until twelve weeks (or so) after the first, that there is sufficient evidence to show that even one dose gives a good level of protection.

 

[Liamo]

My inclination would be to follow what has been done in the trials. Perhaps that is following the practical science?

In the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine trials, a relatively large percentage of the volunteers (59% in the UK study) didn't receive their second dose until 9-12 weeks after the first dose.

Based on an analysis of the data, and according to PHE:

An exploratory analysis of participants who had received one standard dose of the vaccine suggested that efficacy against symptomatic covid-19 was 73% ...

Covid-19 vaccination: What’s the evidence for extending the dosing interval?

 

[SE4 Red]

Even though these seniors tested positive, as the article points out all but one of them was asymptomatic, so the single dose of the vaccine may very well have done enough to help them avoid a serious infection.

We should also note that it's only the Pfizer vaccine where there's no actual data to support a delayed second dose.

With the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, there were enough trial participants that didn't receive the second dose until twelve weeks (or so) after the first, that there is sufficient evidence to show that even one dose gives a good level of protection.

Isn't this the point? With all the vaccines there's still a chance that you will get the virus but if it stops serious illness, hospital admissions and death it has done its job.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

Isn't this the point? With all the vaccines there's still a chance that you will get the virus but if it stops serious illness, hospital admissions and death it has done its job.

That's what we've been told, hopefully correct.

The daughter of a friend of ours tested positive after having the vaccine at JCUH, it was the week after so the vaccine hadn't fully established itself but her symptoms were very mild.

I'll remain cautious until after my second jab.

 

[atypical_boro]

You're right Zorro it is a tough one, what is the better way to do it, I suppose time will tell.

My humble opinion I would go with the 30% half covered.

They’d be “half covered” but surely the premise is that if they got symptoms they’d be significantly reduced and not need a hospital?

 

[spanishman]

One thing that concerns me is again the uk government is risking the lives of the oldest and perhaps more vulnerable people. (After previously discharging people untested, from hospital into care homes.)

With the Pfizer vaccine I believe they should have stuck to the 3 week gap for the initial period.

Then perhaps extend the second dose period for younger people. When they were asked. Giving them knowledge in advance of the extended period. So they knew what they were signing up for.

Also the testing of different vaccines has been different. That is why I only mentioned the Pfizer one.

 

[Pak_Doo_Ik]

One thing that concerns me is again the uk government is risking the lives of the oldest and perhaps more vulnerable people. (After previously discharging people untested, from hospital into care homes.)

With the Pfizer vaccine I believe they should have stuck to the 3 week gap for the initial period.

Then perhaps extend the second dose period for younger people. When they were asked. Giving them knowledge in advance of the extended period. So they knew what they were signing up for.

Also the testing of different vaccines has been different. That is why I only mentioned the Pfizer one.

How they doing it in Spain SM and how is the roll out going?

 

[UKLL1981]

I don’t see why the delay would be a major issue especially when AZ have done research to suggest it’s not.

All the vaccine does is train your body to recognise the virus, the second jab probably just makes the bodies response more efficient by fooling the body into thinking the virus is attacking again.

Serious illness and death is all the matters, if the vaccine protects against that with one shot then it’s a no brainer.

 

[spanishman]

How they doing it in Spain SM and how is the roll out going?

They are sticking to 3 weeks for the 2nd injection.

Also, like in the UK I think, some of the vaccine deliveries are being delayed. My understanding is that to ramp up production they are having to restrict it for a few weeks while they enhance facilities.

 

[masquesmog]

International comparisons can be seen here:

More Than 186 Million Shots Given: Covid-19 Tracker

Bloomberg counted up the shots administered in 82 countries and 59 U.S. states and territories

www.bloomberg.com

 

[spanishman]

I don’t see why the delay would be a major issue especially when AZ have done research to suggest it’s not.

All the vaccine does is train your body to recognise the virus, the second jab probably just makes the bodies response more efficient by fooling the body into thinking the virus is attacking again.

The delay is not a significant delay overall if they were to have stuck with the 3 week gap for a period of say 3-4 weeks.

As approval, production and delivery of vaccines will be increasing over time. Plus there will be more vaccines coming along with different testing and approval profiles. So some of the "lost" time would actually be caught up.

People who signed up for a 3 week gap when they took their first jab are not getting what they signed for. I feel this is wrong. Particularly as the people who have been vaccinated first are likely to be more vulnerable.

 

[r00fie1]

COVID-19 and Your Health

Symptoms, testing, what to do if sick, daily activities, and more.

www.cdc.gov

Information on how well the vaccine works​

• Based on evidence from clinical trials, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 95% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 illness in people without evidence of previous infection.
• CDC will continue to provide updates as we learn more about how well the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine works in real-world conditions.

 

[spanishman]

COVID-19 and Your Health

Symptoms, testing, what to do if sick, daily activities, and more.

www.cdc.gov

Information on how well the vaccine works​

• Based on evidence from clinical trials, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 95% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 illness in people without evidence of previous infection.
• CDC will continue to provide updates as we learn more about how well the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine works in real-world conditions.

Not sure I understand. Please can you explain what you are thinking. Ta.

 

[Londons_Moggie]

International comparisons can be seen here:

More Than 186 Million Shots Given: Covid-19 Tracker

Bloomberg counted up the shots administered in 82 countries and 59 U.S. states and territories

www.bloomberg.com

International comparisons can be seen here:

More Than 186 Million Shots Given: Covid-19 Tracker

Bloomberg counted up the shots administered in 82 countries and 59 U.S. states and territories

www.bloomberg.com

International comparisons can be seen here:

More Than 186 Million Shots Given: Covid-19 Tracker

Bloomberg counted up the shots administered in 82 countries and 59 U.S. states and territories

www.bloomberg.com

Those EU numbers are abysmal.

 

[Laughing]

With the Pfizer vaccine I would have much prefferred my father in law and my dad to have gotten their second dosage within the 3 week period, but in personal circumstances you would always prefer that.

Given the lack of trials, and even if you take the figures at face value, I think delaying the second dose may prove to be a bad decision.

The 52% efficiency quoted means that it is 48% ineffective which worries me with my elderly relatives. I can't quite see the reasoning behind the change in methodology for Pfizer. I don't really buy the argument that we get twice as many people protected.

Also what wil lhappen to this policy when we are vaccinating over groups, you are no longer comparing apples with apples. So a 75 year old gets only 1 shot so a 65 year old can have one shot. The risk profiles are different on the two folk.

Adding to my concern is the fact that we seem to be plouging a lonely furrow with this strategy.

Hopefully it pays off, but the truth is we will not know for quite some time if at all.

 

[spanishman]

Those EU numbers are abysmal.

Different approaches are being adopted around the world. Plus these are early days for vaccine deliveries.

For example, if you plot the numbers of people who have had the recommended full dosage the information would be different at the moment.

Plus Spain has had some horrible weather for the last 2 weeks. This has slowed things down here.

My view is the count can probably only be completed some time after the event. When you look back at the total numbers of additional deaths over the period.

I think the UK government is going for a numbers game to avoid people looking at other stuff going on now and in the recent past.

 

[Londons_Moggie]

Different approaches are being adopted around the world. Plus these are early days for vaccine deliveries.

For example, if you plot the numbers of people who have had the recommended full dosage the information would be different at the moment.

Plus Spain has had some horrible weather for the last 2 weeks. This has slowed things down here.

My view is the count can probably only be completed some time after the event. When you look back at the total numbers of additional deaths over the period.

I think the UK government is going for a numbers game to avoid people looking at other stuff going on now and in the recent past.

It is a numbers game. The quicker u vaccinate as many people as possible u slow and halt the spread.

 

[spanishman]

It is a numbers game. The quicker u vaccinate as many people as possible u slow and halt the spread.

Perhaps the quicker you give full coverage is better. We do not know yet.

 

[Liamo]

Isn't this the point? With all the vaccines there's still a chance that you will get the virus but if it stops serious illness, hospital admissions and death it has done its job.

Yes, that is the point i was trying to make. I may have misconstrued it but I thought the tenor of the OP was to imply that the vaccine was not providing the hoped-for protection, given that these 12 seniors (and 4 staff) tested positive despite having been vaccinated.

I may have misinterpreted the intent, however that was the implication I perceived.

 

[spanishman]

Yes, that is the point i was trying to make. I may have misconstrued it but I thought the tenor of the OP was to imply that the vaccine was not providing the hoped-for protection, given that these 12 seniors (and 4 staff) tested positive despite having been vaccinated.

I may have misinterpreted the intent, however that was the implication I perceived.

My focus was the 52% after 12 days. With the UK leaving it like that and not doing the 2nd injection until later than the 3 weeks.

I posted it without my personal view on the matter to see what discussion arose.