Robert Jenrick clearly on message

Osboro said:
I can understand Irish Patriotism, you are a citizen of a fairly new country that was repressed by its far stronger neighbour for hundreds of years.I
I can understand any citizens need to express solidarity with its own republic.
I can't understand why "subjects of a ruler", whose system has oppressed them for just as long as the Irish, but only within its own borders, should wave the Flag , as if they are part of the club.
It depresses me seeing Union Flags or the Flag of St George hanging from grotty rotten windows , I expect it sat behind Tory Cabinet ministers, it's theirs after all.
I can fully understand the Saltaires, the tricolours, red dragon, I appreciate the " help for heroes" sentiments, even the silly Yorkshire or Cornwall flags, all as a protest or a sign of pride.
I just can't see what some people have to be proud of in a country whose system of privilege and inherited wealth and power is designed to keep the majority "in their place" and whose ideology is as far away from levelling up as vertical is to horizontal.
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Where are the grotty rotten windows you’ve been looking at?
 
Boroproud said:
So what is the difference between a pub, a neighbour, a garage, Buckingham Palace or an MP flying or displaying the flag without being made out to be 'point scoring'?
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If you don't know and can't grasp the ridiculous OTT nationalism being displayed by the Tories then you'll just never get it. You're one of the people they are targeting. It seems it is working. Most of us can see through the charade though
 
Surely patriotism is about helping the country, be that morally or economically. Displaying a flag and a picture of the queen for me is the lowest form of ‘patriotism’ and is there to merely appease simpletons. Robert Jenrick is not a patriot, he helped his mate avoid paying millions in tax and gave his constituency and his mates constituency funds that were meant for the most deprived 100 areas (his was 200+ most deprived)
 
Teesside87 said:
Surely patriotism is about helping the country, be that morally or economically. Displaying a flag and a picture of the queen for me is the lowest form of ‘patriotism’ and is there to merely appease simpletons. Robert Jenrick is not a patriot, he helped his mate avoid paying millions in tax and gave his constituency and his mates constituency funds that were meant for the most deprived 100 areas (his was 200+ most deprived)
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Well summed up
 
Teesside87 said:
Surely patriotism is about helping the country, be that morally or economically. Displaying a flag and a picture of the queen for me is the lowest form of ‘patriotism’ and is there to merely appease simpletons. Robert Jenrick is not a patriot, he helped his mate avoid paying millions in tax and gave his constituency and his mates constituency funds that were meant for the most deprived 100 areas (his was 200+ most deprived)
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I assume you are a Labour voter? You need the “simpletons” of the north and midlands back onside if you want any sniff of power. Might be an idea to ditch the insults the thick racist mantra is wearing a bit thin and it clearly doesn’t work.
 
Boroproud said:
So what is the difference between a pub, a neighbour, a garage, Buckingham Palace or an MP flying or displaying the flag without being made out to be 'point scoring'?
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There's a difference between patriotism and false patriotism which is used as a political tool. There's a rule of thumb: the more that “patriotism” is spouted by a country’s political elite, the less healthy its political culture is.
 
Jimstewart said:
So my distinct impression was correct then? British patriotism bad all others good.
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What would be the key difference between the two ? You seem to have ignored my first 3 paragraphs, but hey, don't let that get in the way of your argument.
 
Centralscrutinizer said:
There's a difference between patriotism and false patriotism which is used as a political tool. There's a rule of thumb: the more that “patriotism” is spouted by a country’s political elite, the less healthy its political culture is.
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This is a true point: when will we become "The peoples United Kingdom" or the "Deomcratic People's United Kingdom"? 🤣
 
Jimstewart said:
I assume you are a Labour voter? You need the “simpletons” of the north and midlands back onside if you want any sniff of power. Might be an idea to ditch the insults the thick racist mantra is wearing a bit thin and it clearly doesn’t work.
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What is your argument here? Why are you calling people in the north simpletons? I never said they were, i said simpletons fall for BS like this. Sorry but if you’re that stupid that you look at someone stood with a flag behind them and think ‘they must be patriotic’ without the slightest inclination to look into who the person is and what their history is, then yes, you are a simpleton
 
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Teesside87 said:
Surely patriotism is about helping the country, be that morally or economically. Displaying a flag and a picture of the queen for me is the lowest form of ‘patriotism’ and is there to merely appease simpletons. Robert Jenrick is not a patriot, he helped his mate avoid paying millions in tax and gave his constituency and his mates constituency funds that were meant for the most deprived 100 areas (his was 200+ most deprived)
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You have defined the difference between patriotism and nationalism very well with this post. Nationalism is a veil for personal opportunity and wealth creation.

I said it the other day, when I think of great Britains I don't thin kof hte queen cutting a ribbon, or Boris hanging from a zipline waving union flags. I think of our great artists, inventors, scientists, authors and musicians. Shakespear, Hawking, Dickens, Constable, Netwon et al
 
Osboro said:
What would be the key difference between the two ? You seem to have ignored my first 3 paragraphs, but hey, don't let that get in the way of your argument.
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Teesside87 said:
What is your argument here? Why are you calling people in the north simpletons? I never said they way, i said simpletons fall for BS like this. Sorry but if you’re that stupid that you look at someone stood with a flag behind them and think ‘they must be patriotic’ without the slightest inclination to look into who the person is and what their history is, then yes, you are a simpleton
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My argument as I said earlier in the thread is that the politicians are trying to woo the working class red wall vote by appearing to be patriotic whilst waving a flag. It’s those voters that they are trying to appease as you put it and you brought the word simpleton into it not me. Why do you think Starmer suddenly has a flag stuck behind him morning noon and night to “appease the voters of Hampstead or Hartlepool?
 
Jimstewart said:
My argument as I said earlier in the thread is that the politicians are trying to woo the working class red wall vote by appearing to be patriotic whilst waving a flag. It’s those voters that they are trying to appease as you put it and you brought the word simpleton into it not me. Why do you think Starmer suddenly has a flag stuck behind him morning noon and night to “appease the voters of Hampstead or Hartlepool?
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You're hinting at the working class being persuaded by a flag as opposed to debate and policy.

Are you suggesting the working class are simpletons, and if so how did this come about?
 
Jimstewart said:
My argument as I said earlier in the thread is that the politicians are trying to woo the working class red wall vote by appearing to be patriotic whilst waving a flag. It’s those voters that they are trying to appease as you put it and you brought the word simpleton into it not me. Why do you think Starmer suddenly has a flag stuck behind him morning noon and night to “appease the voters of Hampstead or Hartlepool?
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You brought 'thick racist' into it not Teesside87.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
You're hinting at the working class being persuaded by a flag as opposed to debate and policy.

Are you suggesting the working class are simpletons, and if so how did this come about?
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People with poor education and a lack of analytical skills tend to be convinced by nationalistic tropes. Now, I understand why some people will find it hard to come to terms with, but more than hazard a guess that the large majority of those are not in the middle and upper classes.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
You're hinting at the working class being persuaded by a flag as opposed to debate and policy.

Are you suggesting the working class are simpletons, and if so how did this come about?
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No the S word was brought into the thread by some else. I’m not hinting I’m perfectly sure that both parties are trying to appeal to the red wall vote by displaying symbols of patriotism. Would you disagree ? They obviously see the working class as patriotic people that aren’t as ashamed of their flag as some on here would seem to be.
 
Jimstewart said:
No the S word was brought into the thread by some else. I’m not hinting I’m perfectly sure that both parties are trying to appeal to the red wall vote by displaying symbols of patriotism. Would you disagree ? They obviously see the working class as patriotic people that aren’t as ashamed of their flag as some on here would seem to be.
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In assuming that the symbol takes on such importance you're hinting that patriotism is now playing a role that was not required previously.

You're suggesting that the working class see the symbol as a guide to lead to better living standards rather than through policy?

Surely that's pointing to a working class that is looking at pictures rather than reading words?
 
Osboro said:
What would be the key difference between the two ? You seem to have ignored my first 3 paragraphs, but hey, don't let that get in the way of your argument.
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I’m not ignoring your first three paragraphs at all I simply said earlier in the thread that I got the distinct impression that people on here thought British patriotism is bad yet others are fine. You’ve confirmed it. As for the difference between the two I assume you are linking it to the evils of the British empire? Well fair enough but not one person that’s breathing now had anything to do with a relic that ceased to exist the best part of seventy five years ago. You can’t keep the sackcloth and ashes on forever.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
In assuming that the symbol takes on such importance you're hinting that patriotism is now playing a role that was not required previously.

You're suggesting that the working class see the symbol as a guide to lead to better living standards rather than through policy?

Surely that's pointing to a working class that is looking at pictures rather than reading words?
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I’m assuming the leadership of both parties think so. Can you explain another reason for the as if by magic appearance of Kier’s flag?
 
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