Starmer ditches his 10 Pledges

BoroMart

Well-known member
A principle is much more woolly than a pledge.
A principle is a guidline, a broad sense of direction. A pledge is how you intend to navigate in that direction. So a clarification on what the principles are is important, as it defines what labour means. It's also very, very hard for the Tories to attack it.

But, when we get closer to the next election it needs to be formailsed as policies otherwise it's meaningless, despite me 100% agreeing with those principles.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
A principle is a guidline, a broad sense of direction. A pledge is how you intend to navigate in that direction. So a clarification on what the principles are is important, as it defines what labour means. It's also very, very hard for the Tories to attack it.

But, when we get closer to the next election it needs to be formailsed as policies otherwise it's meaningless, despite me 100% agreeing with those principles.

Indeed. It is politically smart.
 

SuperStu

Well-known member
he'll chop off the diseased part of the party that is stopping Labour becoming electable or get outed trying.

I understand people wanting this to be true but you can't seriously believe it can you? No amount of attacking the left is suddenly going to make a load of support materialise out of nowhere. It's fantasy.

And if you haven't worked it out yet, he's chopping off the Corbyn luvvies who despite what they say will never change their mind or compromise on their direction or policies.

Centrists crack me up with this. You've just called however many people a disease. You're praising Starmer for chopping them off. And yet you think they're the unreasonable, uncompromising ones.

But again, the Corbynites would rather remain in opposition, in fight and stand by their principles whilst the country goes to the dogs

As per my previous post. Why would Starmer try to change the leadership election rules at conference this weekend? What's the rush? Taking power away from the members would obviously cause an infight. It's not something Corbyn or anyone on the left has made him do. It's Starmer's decision to start an infight, during an event that you'd usually hope would generate good headlines for the party. How do you interpret that as any different from what you're alleging others do?
 

Littlejimmy

Well-known member
It's thoroughly depressing to see Labour falling into factional in-fighting when we have one of the most incompetent and corrupt governments in power. I had high hopes for Starmer but he just doesn't inspire and doesn't show enough passion. I fear England may never see the back of the Tories and they are only going to make it harder to remove them.
 

John67

Well-known member
Starmer is my MP and, according to a few people that know him, he is a thoroughly decent human being. Whilst, I voted for him in the GE, I am becoming less sure of his leadership approach. Yes, he is clever - particularly in relation to this bunch of shysters and conmen currently doing there best to destroy this country but that is not enough to lead the opposition in times of crisis. I can't work out what he actually stands for apart from some kind of centrist managerialism. The more I hope he will prove me wrong, the less he impresses me.
 

Johnny Vincents Motorbike

Well-known member
Wonder what Joe would think of todays Labour Party

I`m not sure he`d be happy with the direction, given that a good portion of it`s voters have become disillusioned to the point of not being bothered (my opinion) who is running the country

Pretty certain Joe would have been a Corbynista.

i'm not aware that he was in the L.P. - but if he had have been, he would have been expelled for writing 'Tommy Gun' & making the call of 'Punks for Palestine'. - thats how daft this present LP is.

meanwhile he would be railing against a tory govt and making the point that we all have a responsibility to remove them - you cant claim to be a Clash fan and be a tory - the two dont mix - look at the moniker of the clash drummer on the first records and album, Tory Crimes !

The Clash - "I think people should know that we are anti fascist, we're anti violence, we're anti racist and we're pro-creative. We are against Ignorance"
 
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MolteniArcore

Well-known member
I understand people wanting this to be true but you can't seriously believe it can you? No amount of attacking the left is suddenly going to make a load of support materialise out of nowhere. It's fantasy.



Centrists crack me up with this. You've just called however many people a disease. You're praising Starmer for chopping them off. And yet you think they're the unreasonable, uncompromising ones.



As per my previous post. Why would Starmer try to change the leadership election rules at conference this weekend? What's the rush? Taking power away from the members would obviously cause an infight. It's not something Corbyn or anyone on the left has made him do. It's Starmer's decision to start an infight, during an event that you'd usually hope would generate good headlines for the party. How do you interpret that as any different from what you're alleging others do?


From the coverage and polling I saw on the TV yesterday there if Starmer got rid of the 'hard left' over half of non-labour voters would consider voting Labour at the next GE.

Starmer knows that the party needs to at least appear electable. That's why the Corbynistas need to go. The next GE is a massive chance to get back in power. Labour need to do everything to grasp it. In-fighting just keeps Labour as an opposition party.

Corbyn has gone. Time to move on people. Back Starmer or move elsewhere (y)
 

bear66

Well-known member
From the coverage and polling I saw on the TV yesterday there if Starmer got rid of the 'hard left' over half of non-labour voters would consider voting Labour at the next GE.

Starmer knows that the party needs to at least appear electable. That's why the Corbynistas need to go. The next GE is a massive chance to get back in power. Labour need to do everything to grasp it. In-fighting just keeps Labour as an opposition party.

Corbyn has gone. Time to move on people. Back Starmer or move elsewhere (y)
Consider . . . . and then vote Tory or Lib Dem.

Nothing on Climate Change shows who he is tryimg to pander to.
 

boroboy6872

Well-known member
Expelling Socialists to form a harmless alternative to the Conservatives, which would be allowed to take office now and again when the Conservatives fell out of favour with the public - Tony Benn
 

MolteniArcore

Well-known member
Consider . . . . and then vote Tory or Lib Dem.

Nothing on Climate Change shows who he is tryimg to pander to.

Might have been Peston - one poll indicated there was 40% of Tory voters who could be swayed. That's a lot of votes. Probably most of the red wall voters who might just have seen through the lies. Increased taxes / food costs / UC cut will all play into Labours hands.
 

bear66

Well-known member
Might have been Peston - one poll indicated there was 40% of Tory voters who could be swayed. That's a lot of votes. Probably most of the red wall voters who might just have seen through the lies. Increased taxes / food costs / UC cut will all play into Labours hands.
Will he have to ditch the Unions altogether as they are 'hard left'? Perhaps start a Social Democratic Party, although that sounds very left wing as well.
 

Ironops

Well-known member
Expelling Socialists to form a harmless alternative to the Conservatives, which would be allowed to take office now and again when the Conservatives fell out of favour with the public - Tony Benn
Tony Benn - who served under Harold Wilson, the original labour centrist

the truth is the left of the labour party have never won an election and their policies and dogma have been comprehensively rejected by the british people in every election since 1945

Until this is understood and accepted we will continue with Tory governments. You dont win elections from the left, you win them by persuading people in the centre ground to vote for you.
 

MolteniArcore

Well-known member
Will he have to ditch the Unions altogether as they are 'hard left'? Perhaps start a Social Democratic Party, although that sounds very left wing as well.

Na, the Unions will stay with him. As will most of the left. Only a few will go.
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
Until this is understood and accepted we will continue with Tory governments. You dont win elections from the left, you win them by persuading people in the centre ground to vote for you.
It's largely in the way you sell it too. Many of Corbyn's policies were completely acceptable in fact favourable to the public, even more so Millibands policies.

What Blair managed to do was get the message across well. Simple, some cheap slogans, some good PR, a dash of spin, and persistently highlight the utter corruption of the sitting government. It was Tory sleeze and a moderate Labour that got the Tories out for a decade and it's what we need now.
 
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