Starmers motion to bar Corbyn being Labour Candidate

Jedi the one one making headlines is Starmer and the only one creating division is Starmer. All these attacks on the left and grassroot level members is one sided and if it is so damaging then you should criticise him not people for pointing out the damage he is doing

I'm actually at the point where I can't work out of he's just taking the p!ss now

This was him at the weekend. He really needs to stop laughing when he is being dishonest or doing thing's to wind Labour voters up

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1638908435054878721
 
Destroy the left and attract the right. The left will have no option other than to vote for Labour and the centrists, moderates, fence sitters, flips flops will be attracted to a sensible strong on crime right wing labour party..

Good idea? It certainly appeals to the political labour party who want to live inside of a thatcherite, fingers in pies, golden handshake world. Unfortunately, the architect of labours downfall the past two elections Sir Kier Starmer is underestimating the the levels of betrayal felt by Labour voters.. Starmers Labour party continues to be seen as undemocratic, they clearly see themselves having Blarite appeal from Labour voters, looking like the David Cameron era Conservatives who were brought into power by the Lib Dem soft shoe shuffle.. and perhaps even resembling a John Major led Conservative party praised for it's financial stability and nous..

Unfortunately what we have is a Jo Swinson level of delusion with not one shred of self awareness combined with the undemocratic incompetence and skulduggery not seen since Nick Clegg jumped in bed with the Tories and the Independent Group for Change genuinely though that people cared about a single word that came out of their mouths.
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It's so bad it feels deliberate. The Tory, UKIP, BNP party will still appeal in a better the devil you know choice to be made at the ballet box. If the Labour right had jumped ship en masse to the Liberal Democrats and had a charismatic leader like with strong principles and a clear plan, they may have been able to go into coalition with a centre left labour party headed by someone like Andy Burnham. I don't see the Lib Dem/Change UK coalition making ground under a Labour banner. All the Tories need to do is close ranks and show an ounce of improvement between now and the next GE
 
exiledinboro said:
Jedi the one one making headlines is Starmer and the only one creating division is Starmer. All these attacks on the left and grassroot level members is one sided and if it is so damaging then you should criticise him not people for pointing out the damage he is doing

I'm actually at the point where I can't work out of he's just taking the p!ss now

This was him at the weekend. He really needs to stop laughing when he is being dishonest or doing thing's to wind Labour voters up

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1638908435054878721
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Exiled - It's simple not true to say Starmer is the only one creating division.
There is a left wing twitter feed that sends out a daily offensive against Starmer.
Many of those who support momentum confront Starmer's agenda at every possible moment.

Personally think its all part of politics but don't think it is right to blame one person for the division.

On this one - Starmer has made a decision.
The Division will come from those who disagree with him.
 
Two things interesting about the logic that document sets out:

1) no mention of antisemitism. So all the times the Labour right insisted that Corbyn could/would regain the whip if only he'd alologise profusely enough have been proven wrong.
2) the assertion that a person just standing as a candidate damages Labour's election hopes is so vague and unprovable, I wonder if this will eventually be used as a precedence for blocking other candidates. If Corbyn damages Labours brand, what about McDonnell? Abbott? Long-Bailey? Begum? Burgon? Dawn Butler? Andy McDonald? Zarah Sultana?

Hopefully Corbyn decides to retire from parliament rather than stand as an independent. I don't see any good outcomes from that. Would prefer him to focus on his Peace and Justice think tank.
 
Scrote said:
And just bin any and all notions of "solidarity"? Let the right-wing press continually get away with it so we can never have nice things?

As mentioned above - it's coming from the same place as the Labour leadership calculating that not supporting striking workers will win more votes than it loses.
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It is coming from that place, I agree and it's a strategy that i believe will prove successful.

It may not sit comfortably with the traditionalists, and even less so the hard left, but just like Blair's Labour it needs to be an offering that appeals to the floating voters.

When was the last time we had a hard left Labour government?
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
It is coming from that place, I agree and it's a strategy that i believe will prove successful.

It may not sit comfortably with the traditionalists, and even less so the hard left, but just like Blair's Labour it needs to be an offering that appeals to the floating voters.

When was the last time we had a hard left Labour government?
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Using the current metric for ‘hard left’ we would have to look back to 1990 as far as New Labour is concerned they carried on the Thatcherite model moving towards third way politics as we see today in America. Tony Blair laid the foundations from 1997 to 2010

It’s a sad situation where MPs, hedge fund managers and newspaper owners get to dictate the political landscape of this country.
 
SuperStu said:
Two things interesting about the logic that document sets out:

1) no mention of antisemitism. So all the times the Labour right insisted that Corbyn could/would regain the whip if only he'd alologise profusely enough have been proven wrong.
2) the assertion that a person just standing as a candidate damages Labour's election hopes is so vague and unprovable, I wonder if this will eventually be used as a precedence for blocking other candidates. If Corbyn damages Labours brand, what about McDonnell? Abbott? Long-Bailey? Begum? Burgon? Dawn Butler? Andy McDonald? Zarah Sultana?

Hopefully Corbyn decides to retire from parliament rather than stand as an independent. I don't see any good outcomes from that. Would prefer him to focus on his Peace and Justice think tank.
Click to expand...
Why would he retire?
 
newyddion said:
Using the current metric for ‘hard left’ we would have to look back to 1990 as far as New Labour is concerned they carried on the Thatcherite model moving towards third way politics as we see today in America. Tony Blair laid the foundations from 1997 to 2010

It’s a sad situation where MPs, hedge fund managers and newspaper owners get to dictate the political landscape of this country.
Click to expand...
I've learnt that the pro Starmer/current party and pro Corbyn/2015-2020 party are not going to agree on this - or anything to do with politics
Tories need to be defeated electorally for the country's sake
 
TeessideCleveland said:
I've learnt that the pro Starmer/current party and pro Corbyn/2015-2020 party are not going to agree on this - or anything to do with politics
Tories need to be defeated electorally for the country's sake
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Leave/Remain.. Labour/Tory.. Left/Right and now Starmer/Corbyn

Divide, Divide, Divide.. Tories need to be defeated should not take away all other positions and points of view. Most folks, average folks, normal general population will not see Starmer and co an attractive competent alternative to what we already have.

He’s too weak, he’s untrustworthy he has no ideas. PRO CORBYN was just pro Labour, CORBYNITE! was just folks wanting democratic socialism, a mixed economy.. we had publically owned trains and corporation tax at 30% under Thatcher. Now this is seen as some sort of culty extreme position to take.

The right people in the right jobs all working together to support pragmatic policies for the betterment of the British population.. we’re so far away from that right now.

Win at all costs.. even if we don’t win?
 
newyddion said:
Leave/Remain.. Labour/Tory.. Left/Right and now Starmer/Corbyn

Divide, Divide, Divide.. Tories need to be defeated should not take away all other positions and points of view. Most folks, average folks, normal general population will not see Starmer and co an attractive competent alternative to what we already have.

He’s too weak, he’s untrustworthy he has no ideas. PRO CORBYN was just pro Labour, CORBYNITE! was just folks wanting democratic socialism, a mixed economy.. we had publically owned trains and corporation tax at 30% under Thatcher. Now this is seen as some sort of culty extreme position to take.

The right people in the right jobs all working together to support pragmatic policies for the betterment of the British population.. we’re so far away from that right now.

Win at all costs.. even if we don’t win?
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As you will understand I disagree with plenty of that - but will just agree to disagree
 
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Unless there is an effective, honest, sincere, opposition which provides hope, inspiration and belief for ordinary people - there is no opposition.
Thats why Starmer and the State he represents - the imperialists best friend - is opening the door to the far right to fill the vacuum.
Desperate people turn to those whose rhetoric sounds like the psalm of salvation.
The evils of racism and nationalism, wrapped in the union flag - is the refuge of the scoundrel.
Starmerism is the ideological twin of neo-liberalism.
He was, is and always will be, the establishment`s man.
The Labour Party has almost always been the obstacle to change for the working class.
Save from 1945, the Labour Party has hitherto been the iron fist of the wealthy, in a velvet glove.
What we have in front of us, laid bare, is the political emperor without its flags, or its suit, or weasel words.
The current Labour leadership is placing its knee on the neck, of any hope which ordinary people had of making positive change for the better.
 
TeessideCleveland said:
As you will understand I disagree with plenty of that - but will just agree to disagree
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It’s ok to disagree, it’s fine, I have no problem with it. You have you point of view, your position and point of view which won’t be changed by anything I have to say and likewise with myself. We’re not polar opposites and I’m sure we have more in common than otherwise.
 
Cancelled my membership several years ago. Starmer is my MP and I will be voting Green in the GE. If Corbyn stands as an independent he will win his seat by a mile, as he is incredibly popular in his constituency and that’s because he is a fantastic MP. By the way there is a large Jewish population in Islington and they will vote for him too as they know he is no antisemite.
 
newyddion said:
Using the current metric for ‘hard left’ we would have to look back to 1990 as far as New Labour is concerned they carried on the Thatcherite model moving towards third way politics as we see today in America. Tony Blair laid the foundations from 1997 to 2010

It’s a sad situation where MPs, hedge fund managers and newspaper owners get to dictate the political landscape of this country.
Click to expand...
I agree, it is sad, very sad indeed, but that's the reality of the landscape Labour are operating in.

And I'm not sure it's ever been that different really. The establishment has always acted with unwavering self-interest, its only the methods used that have evolved.

And Blair only succeeded because he got into bed with Murdoch. Was he wrong to do so? It was critical in winning the election and from there that Labour government was very succesful for a long period of time. It was a pragmatic decision I think.
 
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