Stockholm syndrome -the tories

Can’t believe we are still talking about Iraq.

Blair stood down in 2007, you would have to be about 30 years old to even remember the Iraq conflict regardless of its rights and wrongs.

Cameron and Osborne managed to get Labour out in 2010 by blaming Labour for the banking crash.

That’s how badly informed some of our electorate are.
I think the battle of Orgreave was discussed at length on here the other week as well. Some things just stick in the memory don’t they?
 
I won the bet with myself that if I mentioned the Blair years were generally very good in comparison to what came before and after, then someone very quickly would mention Iraq. It's a predictable, simplistic and lazy answer and ignores the realty that the Tories would have done exactly the same with Iraq but would have starved our own working classes of hope and opportunity as well.
The fact that the Tories would have done something probably doesn’t make it a great idea
 
The left have fallen for the argument of looking for the perfect set of policies rather than accepting a better set then improving it, this has resulted in a fragmented party and continued Tory cruelty.

I disagree. The centrists in Labour are so invested in their own Blair mythology that they've spent 5 years destroying the party. Corbyn was the better set of policies that could be built on. Before him Milibands only offer to working people was to maybe switch their electricity tarriff for them, now Starmers only offer is to make a new type of investment bond for anyone with savings. I.e. sweet FA.
 
Nope the old dusty one he got out of the cupboard the other week. Might have been Atlee’s.
The beginning of the end of Labour setting a new path for the UK beyond empire in 1946 - "We've got to have this thing … whatever it costs. We've got to have the ****** union jack on top of it." Ernest Bevin on Britain's nuclear bomb.
 
I think the battle of Orgreave was discussed at length on here the other week as well. Some things just stick in the memory don’t they?
I didn’t see the Orgreave thread but I see Iraq dredged up regularly. If Blair hadn’t backed Bush in Iraq the Tory media would have portrayed him and Labour as weak and not fit to be in charge of the nations military, so he could never have won.

One thing I’ve noticed in life is that you can’t change the past but you can influence the future.

Only the Tories seem allowed to change their minds on things.

The other thing I’ve noticed is all these lifelong Labour voters on here quietly chipping away at Labour as the problem when for the last eleven years we have had the most incompetent of Tory led governments once again doing huge damage to the ordinary people of this country.

I never see any of the board Tories, and there are plenty, ever criticising anything about Johnson and the shambolic Tories.
 
The fact that the Tories would have done something probably doesn’t make it a great idea
I didn't say it was a great idea, alternatively you should address the reality of leaving Saddam in charge of Iraq and how that wouldn't have been a great idea either. He had already instigated two wars, attacked 3 neighbouring states, and murdered and subjugated his own people, and attempted ethnic cleansing. UN efforts for diplomatic talks were a constant failure and economic action had no impact on him it just starved his citizens. But you know Blair, blah, blah, blah
 
I didn’t see the Orgreave thread but I see Iraq dredged up regularly. If Blair hadn’t backed Bush in Iraq the Tory media would have portrayed him and Labour as weak and not fit to be in charge of the nations military, so he could never have won.

One thing I’ve noticed in life is that you can’t change the past but you can influence the future.

Only the Tories seem allowed to change their minds on things.

The other thing I’ve noticed is all these lifelong Labour voters on here quietly chipping away at Labour as the problem when for the last eleven years we have had the most incompetent of Tory led governments once again doing huge damage to the ordinary people of this country.

I never see any of the board Tories, and there are plenty, ever criticising anything about Johnson and the shambolic Tories.
Have you noticed these "life long labour voters" never seem to have a socialist bone in their bodies. I fail to see how any person with views associated to any Labour Party if the last 50 years could vote for this tory party that has lurched further to the right.
Maybe it's not Labour that's changed so much its them and their views?
 
I didn’t see the Orgreave thread but I see Iraq dredged up regularly. If Blair hadn’t backed Bush in Iraq the Tory media would have portrayed him and Labour as weak and not fit to be in charge of the nations military, so he could never have won.

One thing I’ve noticed in life is that you can’t change the past but you can influence the future.

Only the Tories seem allowed to change their minds on things.

The other thing I’ve noticed is all these lifelong Labour voters on here quietly chipping away at Labour as the problem when for the last eleven years we have had the most incompetent of Tory led governments once again doing huge damage to the ordinary people of this country.

I never see any of the board Tories, and there are plenty, ever criticising anything about Johnson and the shambolic Tories.
I’m completely with you on the incompetence of the Tories. Does that question the standard of the opposition or the choices of the electorate?
 
HC I suspect that is largely because tory supporters are basing their decision on how they are doing right now. They're OK. Labour supporters tend to be more politically active and have strongly entrenched views. I dunno, maybe.
 
Agree @Laughing the other issue I have personally is I believed in JCs politics. The current crop under Starmer are just back to being a shade of grey better than the Tories.

I'm really struggling to get over how they deliberately betrayed Corbyn and actively tried to lose him votes.

It's why we need a surge from a new party that can actually change the system because what we have currently is so utterly broken.
 
Have you noticed these "life long labour voters" never seem to have a socialist bone in their bodies. I fail to see how any person with views associated to any Labour Party if the last 50 years could vote for this tory party that has lurched further to the right.
Maybe it's not Labour that's changed so much its them and their views?
I don’t think their views have changed economically ( I assume you are on about the red wall seats here) but they are definitely more socially right wing and the Tories know that. Corbyn s economic policies along with a lurch to the right on law and order and immigration would probably be a vote winner in these seats but it wouldn’t please large sections of the membership or London vote. The Tories know all this only this morning they’ve announced all UK government buildings are to fly the Union Flag and yesterday Patel announced tougher measures on asylum seekers. These aren’t aimed at the voters of Surrey it’s a nod to the red wall and Mandleson and co will have a keen eye on it.
 
Have you noticed these "life long labour voters" never seem to have a socialist bone in their bodies. I fail to see how any person with views associated to any Labour Party if the last 50 years could vote for this tory party that has lurched further to the right.
Maybe it's not Labour that's changed so much its them and their views?
It's a common claim on here for sure.
 
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