Stokes in incident again.

StrelectricDave said:
Boro players down Yarm after a game, I take it you disapprove of that?

Should Maguire not have gone on holiday abroad and gone to a bar? You can not control people to that degree, sometimes even walking away isn’t an option if you need to defend yourself. There are excuses, the question should be did they breach any ECB protocols and were they defending themselves or part of the aggression? A club will likely have cctv. Innocent until proven guilty applies to sportsmen as well as people like us, surely?
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What’s my disapproval and the ‘whataboutery’ got to do with it?

I’m saying they have no excuse
They broke the rules - the other players who didn’t and the leadership team will, no doubt take the action.

If Boro players are breaking rules then yes - they should be banged to rights too.
 
JackG said:
The team should collectively reject the ECB's curfews outside of competitions. It's not necessary on 'fit-to-play' grounds, and the ECB lacks the moral authority to require them on any other grounds.
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Good point - but, in the absence of that surely you have to follow the rules.
The others did.
 
If they were out past their agreed curfew then it's a black and white issue.

It doesn't really matter who started it, they shouldn't have been there.

Having said that, if it was the rugby bloke at fault then I don't think the punishment should be losing the captaincy. Maybe just missing a couple of games.

It's possible that stokes has had enough of it anyway and wants to step down.
 
Stokes is done after Pakistan tests for me.

He's been a great cricketer for England over the years but his batting has been poor for a long time now. When was the last truly impressive test innings he played with the bat?

You can't trust him bowling because he's so injury prone.

I'm not even sure his captaincy is anything to shout about.
 
In reply to all the comments that its only the second punchup that Stokes has had in a lot of years, I accept the point.

However after it happening once, with him being England captain and as a man in his 30s I'd still hope that he's old, enough and mature enough now to be able to deescalate or remove himself from those situations.

Its really not a good look.
 
Providing they've not done anything like gone looking for trouble, I've not got a real problem with this. If they've been defending someone who needed defending, then fair play.

They're still young lads, and you have to let people out, and let their hair down, they're not machines.

I've no idea what curfews the ECB have or whatever, but if it's preventing them going out, weeks before the next game, then it's the curfews which need looking at, not the players. I'm not sure what a midnight curfew solves, over a 4am curfew, the risks won't really change.

People will get on their high horse saying "they should be avoiding trouble" or "not getting into fights", but I imagine it's not that simple when you're so well known. They will be being antagonised by idiots every single time they go out anywhere, to 100x anyone on here has ever had.
 
atypical_boro said:
Botham, Flintoff, Stokes - all 3 seemed to have this tendency to get in bother.
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All had a tendency to win games which no other could too.

You just have to accept that to get some character, creativity and fight on the pitch, it's going to sometimes need people which have those types of personalities. It's the same in football, we've had loads of them, and most of us loved them, players like Gazza, Merson, Boksic, Robson, Parlour etc.

Sometimes you have to just let people do what the hell they want to get the best out of them, as when you restrict them, they just become miserable and go into self destruction. People like that have minds which work in completely different ways.
 
Given all that went on in the ashes, the midnight curfew was a collective good idea.

Why the feck Stokes and Atkinson felt that some dressing room beers and back to hotel wasn't enough for them is beyond me.

Absolute first class stupidity to then go out to a nightclub.


The biggest issue is I don't think Brook is anymore responsible and its likely he's going to have to take over the captaincy for at least one game, if not more.


It also gives a selection headache if you take Stokes and Atkinson out f the bowling attack, as they are the strongest batters from the "bowling group". if you bring in Fisher and Baker (the other two seamers ? no idea if Archer is declared available or not, I think he was being rested until the 3rd test) you probably have to swap Ahmed in for Bashir, otherwise the tail looks awfully long.

Now Woakes has retired there isnt really another Seam bowling all rounder as an alternative to Stokes. Would be a strange time to call up Jordan Clark or Ryan Higgins for their 1st caps, George Hill?
You probably don't want to go into the Oval test on a bat friendly wicket with only 4 front line bowlers either - but you could bring in Rew for Stokes and play Ahmed/Bashir, Baker, Robinson, Tongue and rely on Root and Brook for some overs.
 
t4tomo said:
The biggest issue is I don't think Brook is anymore responsible and its likely he's going to have to take over the captaincy for at least one game, if not more.
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I think Brook would really mature into the role if given it personally.

Sounds a little premature but i'd then give Vice to Bethell.
 
Andy_W said:
They're still young lads, and you have to let people out,
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‘Young’ is doing a bit of heavy lifting there.
Stokes is 35 and the captain.

And, they are allowed out.

I’m not sure why a ‘non drinking’ 35 year old would need to be out midweek after midnight if it is against the rules.

It’s a ‘team game’ - the rest of the team mates respected the curfew.
 
1finny said:
‘Young’ is doing a bit of heavy lifting there.
Stokes is 35 and the captain.

And, they are allowed out.

I’m not sure why a ‘non drinking’ 35 year old would need to be out midweek after midnight if it is against the rules.

It’s a ‘team game’ - the rest of the team mates respected the curfew.
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That's still "young", and being captain he's under far more pressure than the rest. I would expect him, more than anyone to need a blow out every now and then. That's also his character, we were well aware of that when choosing him to be captain, and he was still the best choice as captain. He's also part of a phase which has made England cricket interesting again.

Seems like they're not allowed out after midnight, has any of your workplaces ever asked you to do that, before a day off, when you were in your 20's or 30's?

Midweek means nothing, they're not Mon-Fri 9-5ers, he was off the day after, it's just like a 9-5er going out on a Friday night. Their "weekend" is whenever they're off the day after, as long as they're not turning up drunk for work, then that's the main thing.

Well technically ~20% of the first XI didn't, and the rest might not have done, they just might not have got caught, or been elsewhere. Plus, each to their own, different people like to do different things, and some just have less control, it happens.

They can do whatever they like as far as I'm concerned, as long as they're not instigating the trouble or breaking the law, and the ECB laws should reflect that imo. Ideally they will avoid grey areas like potentially breaking laws in defence of others, and I'm sure they do try to, but sometimes it's hard to avoid when you're a target for the public. Sometimes there is no "good outcome", it happens. Being overly restrictive on people isn't going to lead to good outcomes in their performance in their employment either.

Anyway, the facts of what happened aren't out yet, so lets wait and see.
 
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I think an England cricket captain should have the qualities to rise above the nonsense and walk away from trouble, especially Stokes with his history.

I get the feeling that’s not Stokes’ mindset.
 
AytonMews said:
They don’t play again til a week on Wednesday tbf. I’m sure footballers would be having a few beers if they had that amount of time between games
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Yes, probably true. But there is a curfew in place from the ECB which it would appear that they broke. If they wanted to drink into the early hours, they could stay in the hotel and do it. I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect cricketers who are being paid on contracts from the ECB to conduct themselves reasonably, and to adhere to whatever conditions are imposed upon them. Going to clubs until the early hours, getting into brawls and so on is not reasonable at all. They are professional players, their performance will be affected by drinking. You would expect a brain surgeon not to be out drinking and fighting before a duty shift. I don't see why anyone would think it is acceptable for a professional athlete to do this. Have a few beers by all means, but abide by the curfew rules and do not have so much that you end up fighting.
 
From what I’ve just heard on talksport from the cricket correspondent, the Rugby guy is entirely to blame and involved him attempting to punch Atkinson but an ECB security guard stepped in the way. Stokes wasn’t involved just present.

Also abit of a grey area about whether the curfew was still in place as the game was finished and it was on time off.

By all accounts Stokes is allegedly about to tell the ECB to go feck themselves and retire from internationals over it.
 
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t4tomo said:
Which is exactly why they have a self imposed midnight curfew
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Hiding away to not be a target on a rare occasion doesn't seem like value to me, and seems incredibly boring. Any one of us could go out and end up in an altercation, or end up feeling like we want to defend a mate or something, it's probably even more likely going to Boro games, especially away. Should we just not go to those either? Whether it's 4pm or 4am doesn't make a great deal of difference. By going drinking you're increas

By hiding away, you're just giving in.

Self imposed by the ECB? Or the players going along with the ECB as that's ? Either way it's daft as it's taking away personality, limiting people from enjoying their time off is a massive overreach I think, and we'll play worse for it, and we'll be even worse just picking players who don't have a bit of character or a life outside of the game.

Soutra said:
Yes, probably true. But there is a curfew in place from the ECB which it would appear that they broke. If they wanted to drink into the early hours, they could stay in the hotel and do it. I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect cricketers who are being paid on contracts from the ECB to conduct themselves reasonably, and to adhere to whatever conditions are imposed upon them. Going to clubs until the early hours, getting into brawls and so on is not reasonable at all. They are professional players, their performance will be affected by drinking. You would expect a brain surgeon not to be out drinking and fighting before a duty shift. I don't see why anyone would think it is acceptable for a professional athlete to do this. Have a few beers by all means, but abide by the curfew rules and do not have so much that you end up fighting.
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Drinking in a hotel bar is crap, and you know it, everyone knows it, that's no life. Plus, it's their day off, they earned those days off. What would you say if your workplace was asking you to drink in the house/ hotel at 20-40 year old on your days off, and you couldn't go out on the town? Most would either say "sod that, I'm going out, it's my day off", or would say "ok, whatever", and then just go anyway.

Everyone on here grilling the cricketers now would have been laughing their heads off at the lads at Euro 96, or when there were pics of Boro players out in the Dickens or in Yarm after some of our big wins etc.

Young lads going out till whatever time they want, during time off, is reasonable behaviour imo, it's not like they were getting lashed up when the test was going on, they'd just won it convincingly, and were effectively stood down.

Everyone's read recently that all the England cricket and football teams hate being cooked up in the hotel at night, bored out of their minds. And everyone's seen how players "teambuilding" has helped performance, and there are different ways to do that, one size doesn't fit all.

A brain surgeon wouldn't drink before a shift, and I imagine these lads wouldn't be out before they play the next day either. Would you be ok with the brain surgeon having a drink a week before he's next in surgery though?
 
Priv said:
From what I’ve just heard on talksport from the cricket correspondent, the Rugby guy is entirely to blame and involved him attempting to punch Atkinson but an ECB security guard stepped in the way. Stokes wasn’t involved just present.

Also abit of a grey area about whether the curfew was still in place as the game was finished and it was on time off.

By all accounts Stokes is allegedly about to tell the ECB to go feck themselves and retire from internationals over it.
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Wouldn't surprise me, was probably giving it the big un, to lads from a different sport who have already "made it".

If it's time off, and not before or during a test they can crack on for all I care, as long as they're not breaking the law.

I hope he does, and I hope he takes all the other lads who "like a beer" with him, we'll end up with a team full of squares and then everyone crying about them drinking would be whinging about why all our best players are now playing in the IPL instead.
 
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