Streets ahead? What I’ve learned from my year with an electric car

[SmallTown]

What about the hybrids that exist, for example the Volvo XC90 which confirm the best of both worlds - interested in any opinions on that option which to me looks like you can have a EV for short journeys (50 miles or so) and then switch to petrol should it be needed.

I'm not a fan of hybrids because they seem worst of both worlds Environmentally. they still burn petrol and the still have batteries.

I get why they are a necessary stop gap until EV chargers infrastructure develops however.

 

[Billy69_uk]

What about the hybrids that exist, for example the Volvo XC90 which confirm the best of both worlds - interested in any opinions on that option which to me looks like you can have a EV for short journeys (50 miles or so) and then switch to petrol should it be needed.

I now have a Volvo S90 T8 "twin engine" as a company car. About 20 ish miles Ev range, then a petrol engine when needed. About 100Kw electric power and 300 hp petrol engine, so its eco and mental performance.

I dont have a home charger, but I will plug it in when I am at Tesco or parked in town etc where a charger is available.

I did find the different apps needed for the different charging networks a pain in the ar5e, but maybe thats changing these days.

 

[Nano]

What about the hybrids that exist, for example the Volvo XC90 which confirm the best of both worlds - interested in any opinions on that option which to me looks like you can have a EV for short journeys (50 miles or so) and then switch to petrol should it be needed.

I had a hybrid before my EV. It was a great car and it was both best of both worlds and worst of both worlds. Was about 20 miles EV (quoted 30 but max 23 if really, really careful) but my commute was 25 each and I could charge at work so my commute was almost 100% EV so that was good. Had great performance in terms of acceleration but short range and poor mpg on long journeys because it had a smaller petrol tank but a punchy turbo engine because it was a sport model. Boot was almost non-existent because the space for a petrol tank and a battery is needed which means taking boot space.

I loved the car but we had another car for family trips because there was so little space. They are best for people using them to commute short range that need occasional long journeys. If you do regular long journeys or a round trip commute of 30+ miles with no chance to charge at work then you would be better off with an ICE with better fuel economy or an EV with decent range.

 

[Andy_W]

Yeah I think that's averaged globally. So taking into account the 100% fossil fuel energy countries like Poland and China.

If you get an EV in Norway or Costa Rica, that figure is significantly lower, I believe something like 11k miles.

My new house has solar panels which should save me a few quid, and the UK is far greener than the average nation and becoming more green by the day.

Being green wasn't even one of my considerations to be honest, but being greener after 60k miles is sound, as every EV will do 2-5x that, espeically with a motor with an extremely long life.

The battery might degrade by maybe 5-10% after 100k miles, which will be irrelevant as there will be more faster chargers then, but regardless that's 8 years away for me (when there won't be any new ice cars), and there will be some sort or recycling system, or way of using the battery as home storage or whatever.

 

[Andy_W]

What about the hybrids that exist, for example the Volvo XC90 which confirm the best of both worlds - interested in any opinions on that option which to me looks like you can have a EV for short journeys (50 miles or so) and then switch to petrol should it be needed.

Could be good for some people, but as a business owner I wouldn't as the perks are not as good.

They won't be as efficient either, so probably a larger TCO.

I expect they would depreciate more than an EV too, but less than an ICE, it's a good compromise for some.

 

[Unravel_Morrison]

I had a hybrid before my EV. It was a great car and it was both best of both worlds and worst of both worlds. Was about 20 miles EV (quoted 30 but max 23 if really, really careful) but my commute was 25 each and I could charge at work so my commute was almost 100% EV so that was good. Had great performance in terms of acceleration but short range and poor mpg on long journeys because it had a smaller petrol tank but a punchy turbo engine because it was a sport model. Boot was almost non-existent because the space for a petrol tank and a battery is needed which means taking boot space.

I loved the car but we had another car for family trips because there was so little space. They are best for people using them to commute short range that need occasional long journeys. If you do regular long journeys or a round trip commute of 30+ miles with no chance to charge at work then you would be better off with an ICE with better fuel economy or an EV with decent range.

I think the worst part of the hybrids is the essentially false economy claims.

It makes the general public less confident that new and associated products will do what they say.

The figures they do achieve are impressive - if you can get 50-60mpg out of an Outlander PHEV that's impressive against an equivalent petrol only car of a similar size. Just don't tell me it's official figures are 150mpg.

EV's have a similar problem. Don't tell me that the range is 300 miles if real world it's 240.

 

[Billy69_uk]

I think the worst part of the hybrids is the essentially false economy claims.

It makes the general public less confident that new and associated products will do what they say.

The figures they do achieve are impressive - if you can get 50-60mpg out of an Outlander PHEV that's impressive against an equivalent petrol only car of a similar size. Just don't tell me it's official figures are 150mpg.

EV's have a similar problem. Don't tell me that the range is 300 miles if real world it's 240.

I had an Outlander PHEV for 3 years and 60,000 miles. I never got more than 26 mpg and with only a 10 mile EV range (or thereabouts) and a really small petrol tank giving a petrol range of 180 miles ish, it wasnt great in any measurable way apart from a lower BIK value.

 

[SmallTown]

I had an Outlander PHEV for 3 years and 60,000 miles. I never got more than 26 mpg and with only a 10 mile EV range (or thereabouts) and a really small petrol tank giving a petrol range of 180 miles ish, it wasnt great in any measurable way apart from a lower BIK value.

It's a bizarre thing isn't it? EV are supposed to give you range anxiety, yet here is a fairly popular petrol car, with a range of 190 miles. Which isn't great.

 

[Lefty]

They look smart they do

Does it have varying modes of regen, or is it just off and on?

How does it list your consumption, miles per Kw/H?

So what mileage are you getting and what is the WLTP? Mine is pretty normal I think, but by normal that's about a 20% loss in winter (can even be 30% on bad days/ trips) and 10% in summer. It's hard to hit the WLTP figure mind, and I think I've only gone over this once.

Mine can get about as low as 2 miles per kw/H when I'm caning it everywhere, but for an 80kw battery that's only 160 miles, from a WLTP of 240, but on some trips in summer it's up to 3.8 mp kw/H, and most of the time around 3 m p kw/H.

To be fair mind, I don't think they should only be allowed to quote WLTP figures, they should have to give examples at different speeds and different conditions.

You'll be fine once you get your home charger, it's a game changer. If you can, one thing which does help is pre heating the car and seats before you get in it, when it's plugged in to the charger, most of them can do this. It saves running the battery down, and obv means you'll never have to de ice a car again, or get in a cold car, small perks.

Just the one regen mode.

Consumption is listed as 3.5-3.9 miles per kw/h and most of the real world testers put it at 3.4, but from the range calculator on the vauxhall website (for the Corsa though) I can see the big difference depending on the outside temp, speed etc.

Range Calculator | New Corsa-e | Vauxhall

Calculate your range with our New Corsa-e range simulation tool.

www.vauxhall.co.uk

I saw the following good piece of advice on a forum. The forums seem to refer to the remaining mileage calculator as a guess-o-meter, so I guess it's an inexact technology at least for now.

'Every new BEV owner should do a "Winter Chicken Test" on their first Winters day. Leave home with 100% SOC, head straight for the nearest motorway, via fast A roads as soon as possible. Go the whole way @ 70 mph on cruise where possbile, never slower. Keep going until you get to 50% on the GOM, at which point turn round asap and take the same route back at the same speeds. Only slow to "desperate" speeds once you get to 5% SOC a few miles from home, then slow down to make sure you make it back to your driveway. Make a note, this is your "Max" winter range. Take blankets, hot drinks, food, credit card and the number to join a spur of the Moment AA / RAC Relay membership. Do the same in July once you get a day above 25 degrees. This will be your Max "Summer" range. Now you will never get caught out with range anxiety again. You will have 2 range figures. Winter and Summer, that you know you can pretty much always achieve.'

I think I'll do this when I get my home charger fitted next week.

 

[Nano]

I think the worst part of the hybrids is the essentially false economy claims.

It makes the general public less confident that new and associated products will do what they say.

The figures they do achieve are impressive - if you can get 50-60mpg out of an Outlander PHEV that's impressive against an equivalent petrol only car of a similar size. Just don't tell me it's official figures are 150mpg.

EV's have a similar problem. Don't tell me that the range is 300 miles if real world it's 240.

It's because it is impossible to calculate the real world usage. I had times where I could do 1500 miles with one tank of petrol because I was rarely using the petrol as all my journeys were on electric. Other times it was under 400 miles. They usually quote a petrol only mpg as well as a combined one.

MPGs are only really useful for comparing against other cars quoted MPGs in the same category so compare an ICE MPG against another ICE MPG or a hybrid vs another hybrid, EV vs EV etc because the numbers are all nowhere near reality but they are calculated using a standard method.

 

[Billy69_uk]

It's a bizarre thing isn't it? EV are supposed to give you range anxiety, yet here is a fairly popular petrol car, with a range of 190 miles. Which isn't great.

I definitely got range anxiety in the outlander, but it was 100% anxiety about getting to the next petrol station in time.

The route you drive has so much input as to range and mpg ETC. When my daughter was at uni in Preston, if I drove across the A66 then down the M6. (130 miles ish door to door) I had to fill up in Preston to get home, and got 24 mpg tops, and the battery was empty by Darlo. No regen and no start stops on the motorway.

One time the A66 was shut due to flooding, so I went via Harrogate and Skipton on the A59, and managed to get there and back on one tank of fuel. I think it was all the stop start driving, and regen on the downward hill sections etc that kept topping the battery up. Ended up with closer to 40 mpg for that round trip I think. I was on fumes by the time I got home, but I saw this as a challange.

It was a truly terrible car, although I did geek out at the tech a bit if I am honest.

As much as I love the Volvo S90 T8, I am gettign about 25 mpg in "hybrid" or "sports" mode, but then I do drive like a tvvat. (its hard not too with 400 hp)

 

[Andy_W]

'Every new BEV owner should do a "Winter Chicken Test" on their first Winters day. Leave home with 100% SOC, head straight for the nearest motorway, via fast A roads as soon as possible. Go the whole way @ 70 mph on cruise where possbile, never slower. Keep going until you get to 50% on the GOM, at which point turn round asap and take the same route back at the same speeds. Only slow to "desperate" speeds once you get to 5% SOC a few miles from home, then slow down to make sure you make it back to your driveway. Make a note, this is your "Max" winter range. Take blankets, hot drinks, food, credit card and the number to join a spur of the Moment AA / RAC Relay membership. Do the same in July once you get a day above 25 degrees. This will be your Max "Summer" range. Now you will never get caught out with range anxiety again. You will have 2 range figures. Winter and Summer, that you know you can pretty much always achieve.'

That's a good test, and gives a great real world idea.

 

[red_clowne]

We're thinking about getting an EV this summer.
Mrs RC has asked me to ask what your partners think about having an EV?
Can they cope with your battery/range anxiety?

 

[SmallTown]

We're thinking about getting an EV this summer.
Mrs RC has asked me to ask what your partners think about having an EV?
Can they cope with your battery/range anxiety?

There isn’t such a thing as range anxiety it simply doesn’t exist. So yes they can cope.

I imagine my partner is happy with EV as she’s trading in her diesel for one as we speak

 

[Lefty]

We're thinking about getting an EV this summer.
Mrs RC has asked me to ask what your partners think about having an EV?
Can they cope with your battery/range anxiety?

My OH was skeptical it was a good idea to get an EV yet, so I've kept quiet so as not to give her any opportunity for 'I told you to wait a year or two'. Tell your wife to do the same so you'll keep it to yourself , problem solved for her.

 

[tripleheader]

That's a good test, and gives a great real world idea.

You would have thought the car company could have provided these useful figures.

 

[Redwurzel]

Just the one regen mode.

Consumption is listed as 3.5-3.9 miles per kw/h and most of the real world testers put it at 3.4, but from the range calculator on the vauxhall website (for the Corsa though) I can see the big difference depending on the outside temp, speed etc.

Range Calculator | New Corsa-e | Vauxhall

Calculate your range with our New Corsa-e range simulation tool.

www.vauxhall.co.uk

I saw the following good piece of advice on a forum. The forums seem to refer to the remaining mileage calculator as a guess-o-meter, so I guess it's an inexact technology at least for now.

'Every new BEV owner should do a "Winter Chicken Test" on their first Winters day. Leave home with 100% SOC, head straight for the nearest motorway, via fast A roads as soon as possible. Go the whole way @ 70 mph on cruise where possbile, never slower. Keep going until you get to 50% on the GOM, at which point turn round asap and take the same route back at the same speeds. Only slow to "desperate" speeds once you get to 5% SOC a few miles from home, then slow down to make sure you make it back to your driveway. Make a note, this is your "Max" winter range. Take blankets, hot drinks, food, credit card and the number to join a spur of the Moment AA / RAC Relay membership. Do the same in July once you get a day above 25 degrees. This will be your Max "Summer" range. Now you will never get caught out with range anxiety again. You will have 2 range figures. Winter and Summer, that you know you can pretty much always achieve.'

I think I'll do this when I get my home charger fitted next week.

112 mile range @ 70mph @ 0 degrees according to Vauxhall. That is a seriuos concern and even with lots of chargers its 3 stops for me to get to a Boro home game in mid winter. I often drive for 4.5 hours without stopping at present.

Public chargers are a problem where I live, I am aware of only 16 in my local town of 90k people. In London I have seen them in lamposts, but it much different in the sticks.

If I went for a EV (at present) it would be a long range TESLA. I believe they are around £48k. Over 10 years I could save around £12k in fuel and £1.55k in tax by switching from unleaded. Servicing costs could be less say £1k saving - giving a total saving of around £14.55k over 10 years.

I am sure things will change with time, but I can only analyse the situation now.

What is a puzzle is why are electric cars so expensive. It was said a few years ago it was because they were made in low volume but that can't be true now?

 

[SmallTown]

What is a puzzle is why are electric cars so expensive. It was said a few years ago it was because they were made in low volume but that can't be true now?

The puzzle should be why this myth persists?

Yes EV are slightly more expensive then their petrol equivalent but it's really only marginal.

My car is actually cheaper than the ICE car that the manufacturers says is it's direct rival so it's not that clear.

Agree about the charging situation, the rest oif the country needs to catch up and destination charging needs to improve.

What car do you drive at the moment? If you often drive for 4.5 hours I would suggest a corsa, electric or not, being a small city car wouldn't be the car for you.

 

[redcarbob]

The puzzle should be why this myth persists?

Yes EV are slightly more expensive then their petrol equivalent but it's really only marginal.

I took an interest in the new MGZS EV after seeing it advertised on TV, it’s £9,000 more than it’s petrol equivalent for a similar spec, so not marginal in this instance.

 

[SmallTown]

I took an interest in the new MGZS EV after seeing it advertised on TV, it’s £9,000 more than it’s petrol equivalent for a similar spec, so not marginal in this instance.

Simliar spec and performance MG ZS? Can you show me the comparison you have made? Seems a lot