The end?

In the bleak midwinter. Guess which word prevented the posting of this earlier.

"During winter you need good equipment and logistics to survive.
I have extensive training and experience in this, so I will not bore you with details.
Let me just state that I participated in the aptly named N0rthwind exercise.
It set the current world record of s***y conditions. Four died, 70+ was wounded so bad that they needed amputations, and one artillery howitzer exploded due to becoming fragile.
It was at one point -53.6 Celsius.

1) Training on how to survive in cold and harsh conditions. The best are bviously Sweden and Finland. Both countries have minus 50 celsius as the temperature where we stop holding exercises. This was the result of N0rthwind, we got a temperature that was officially to cold to do war.

2) Let this sink in, now understand why I giggle when people say that winter will slow Ukraine down.

3) It will not, winter is your friend in manoeuvre warfare, mud is the enemy.

4) Good gear to keep you warm and dry. And many many socks. Socks are important in cold weather, you must change into new clean and dry socks at a minimum of once per day, preferably twice.

5) Enough socks and you are invincible.

Food, you will burn through 4-7 times as many calories at minus 20C compared to 20 plus.
In the Swedish army the daily summer field rations are 5000 calories per day, winter are 7000-9000 and you are supposed to scarf down two of them.
Enough food served enough times per day and your body will adapt in 5 to 14 days and produce brown fat that is insulating, and increase metabolic burnrate.
Ie, your body will keep you warm even when an unprepaired body would not.
More things will break, and more time will be needed on fixing your gear. Plan for it.
If you have more of 1 - 4 you will win against any odds. See the Finnish Winter War and the Continuation War.
The Swedish official military doctrine is to hold in summer, and to break them during winter. And it was always Russia that was the enemy, we are just too nice to say it out loud (until now).

Ukraine has 1 - 5 in ample amounts. They have had 8 years to prepare together with Canadian, Finnish and Swedish military advisors that have been in Ukraine.
Ukraine is well prepared, well trained, well socked, well fed... Russia is not prepared at all, which in and of itself is just ridiculous.
Yes, some of them are Russian hunter/gatherers from out in nowhere Russia. But they lack sock and food, the rest they have.
For the main bulk of mobiks and soldiers things are much bleeker.
They have summer gear, and only one set of it so they can't change if they get wet. Socks, the original soldiers had 5 pairs when they came to Ukraine, now they get two pairs of feet wrappings. This is why they have stolen socks since the beginning of the war.

Food, well they do not get any and have to scavange for it themselves.
Try to scavange 10 000 calories plus per day when tens of thousands of soldiers are doing the same thing around you, good luck with that.
I suspect that quite a few by now are eating their fallen comrades, and no I am not joking.
It is the only option for them to survive except to surrender for a warm Ukrainian meal.

This leads me to a leaked Russian report on casualties. It is a study over percentages of fatalities.
Up until two weeks ago the bulk of it was in descending order, Lack of medical treatment, Died during treatment, Killed in Action.
This is normal for almost all armies, but the difference in proportion is staggering. Four soldiers died per every directly killed in Action.
This probably means that the Russian figures are much higher than the Ukrainian body count method suggests.

This changed two weeks ago.
Now 52 percent die of "Fell asleep and did not wake up", which is a wonderful eufemism for hypothermia (or being eaten alive in your sleep by your friends).
This is an enormous number.

The Swedish army was counting on a figure of 1 percent fatalities during wartime. The Finns had 2.6 during the Winter War, but with less developed gear and training, so I think the Swedish number should hold. And that Ukraine would end up at 1 - 2.6 percent.
Now ponder 52 percent and the effect on the outcome of the war. This was exactly why Russia lost the Winter War.
And they are not only dying inside Ukraine, there are many who freeze to death in Russia in their baracks and in tent cities as they get mobilised.
Self inflicted auto-massacre will become the term on what Russia is doing to themselves this winter.

Yesterday as I was falling asleep I was pondering how far Russia have fallen from the times of the Soviet Union.
The Soviet Union landed on Venus.
Russia can't even produce socks."
Fascinating stuff

I started going through the ex military I know and then the kit I owned for wandering round a few higher places mainly in England but occasionally Scotland. If you do not have the right kit for very cold weather you are likely to have a problem particularly if your opposition do.

There is little to argue with in the basic premise hence you tend to make assumptions that the rest is likely to make sense also. Maybe I'm starting to get an understanding on what is going on
 
Fascinating stuff

I started going through the ex military I know and then the kit I owned for wandering round a few higher places mainly in England but occasionally Scotland. If you do not have the right kit for very cold weather you are likely to have a problem particularly if your opposition do.

There is little to argue with in the basic premise hence you tend to make assumptions that the rest is likely to make sense also. Maybe I'm starting to get an understanding on what is going on

A night on Blackstone Edge in the gear that these Russian conscripts have would likely be fatal. I shudder to think what history is going to make of this. None of these poor sods who have been raised on Russian exceptionalist bullshyte deserve to be hauled fromn their families and sent, un-equipped, to die against a stronger enemy (Ukraine) or an invincible enemy (nature).
 
A night on Blackstone Edge in the gear that these Russian conscripts have would likely be fatal. I shudder to think what history is going to make of this. None of these poor sods who have been raised on Russian exceptionalist bullshyte deserve to be hauled fromn their families and sent, un-equipped, to die against a stronger enemy (Ukraine) or an invincible enemy (nature).
Winter will be a massive killer for the Russians but will Vlad care, hell no, he has plenty to replace the estimated 90,000 killed or maimed. I'm enjoy reading your reports which are factual and knowledgeable.
 
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A night on Blackstone Edge in the gear that these Russian conscripts have would likely be fatal. I shudder to think what history is going to make of this. None of these poor sods who have been raised on Russian exceptionalist bullshyte deserve to be hauled fromn their families and sent, un-equipped, to die against a stronger enemy (Ukraine) or an invincible enemy (nature).
I've never been that cold on Blackstone Edge but I have at the footie in whitby in a cool Nor-easter and on the south Gare Remember the Fettlers " a cold nor-easter from the Gare will freeze your very soul"
 
A bit more "homework" has revealed that there are a lot of academic studies about the amount of calories to consume in minus temperatures. The early ones 1947 - 60s tend to be Scandanavian and the later ones the Yanks specifically from Alaska

The yank military reckon that 4-4500 calories is sufficient for minus 30.

That is different to the figures in Boro lads piece. Whether there is an element of double counting or cals per hour multiplied by 24 I don't know.

I know not if there is error or exaggeration. Can anyone help ?
 
This is an interesting detailed article about the winter fighting in Ukraine from March 2021, a year before the current 'special operation'.

A lot of it had stuck with me from when I first read it, but I couldn't find it again whenever I looked these last few months. Hey presto, today I found it again. I'm chuffed.

 
A bit more "homework" has revealed that there are a lot of academic studies about the amount of calories to consume in minus temperatures. The early ones 1947 - 60s tend to be Scandanavian and the later ones the Yanks specifically from Alaska

The yank military reckon that 4-4500 calories is sufficient for minus 30.

That is different to the figures in Boro lads piece. Whether there is an element of double counting or cals per hour multiplied by 24 I don't know.

I know not if there is error or exaggeration. Can anyone help ?

Not sure, but his estimates will be the result of the Swedish military's extensive winter warfare training. My place in Sweden is very close to the K4 base where it all happens and one of my friends up there was an instructor in winter survival (now retired .... effin hates the cold.... as does our man with the updates). Special forces from other countries (including the UK) come up there to Arvidsjaur in order to train with and learn from the Swedes. Their higher recommended calorie intake may reflect that they train in temperatures down to -50 .... as opposed to -30. I can't actually imagine being out in -50. The fluid in your eyes freezes. It's hard to breathe. One of my neighbours up there is a woodsman in the winter months. He went out in -40 a couple of years ago to do a job. He walked 100m and had to turn round and go home as he felt he was going to collapse.
Obviously, the temperatures where this conflict is taing place will get no-where near as low.
 
Excellent piece from coffee or die Lefty. I found it a good read and I certainly learnt a few things from it.

I've a reasonable understanding of keeping warm when the weather's cold and the important bits. I'm surprised by the use of Goretex. I wouldn't use it unless there was nowt else around and that might well be the case in Ukraine.

Sadly it hasn't helped me too much on the calories issue but the rotational issues might make a difference
 
For example if I was going to the Boro on a very cold night I'd have a down duvet jacket on. I'd be nowhere near Teesside in snow but if I had a need to be a Keela Munroe top would probably go over the duvet. It's an odd system but there's a mesh and ventilated space which has worked for me before. I suspect there is a condensation risk and therefore a potential problem

Goretex does not get rid of moisture from the interior fast enough. Ventile does but I'm now too fat to get my ventile layers on top ! Buffalo uses Pertex to get rid of interior moisture and a thick fleece for warmth - as long as you keep moving its fine.

The Uk military uses buffalo. The other standard issue is "snugpak" which is a synthetic insulating material that remains warm when wet

I've met several Russian delegations who are superby ill-clad for the job in hand and hence I have few problems with understanding their textile issues

I've always found it amusing when going into the tent shop looking for a new tent. the demand was always the same "it had to pitch flysheet first." It only takes a couple of minutes to put the poles in was oft the reply. I didn't want to get that wet first. My tent has to be dry, same sort of issues as the "cold brigade" ensue if it is not
 
As an aside, one of my favourite loops: from Hollingworth lake, above, alongside and over the M62, up on to BE and back down. Never spent the night up there through!

Like anywhere on the top of the Pennines, an unforgiving place if you have a combination of cold, rain and wind. As Rishworthian suggests, keeping dry is the key.
 
For example if I was going to the Boro on a very cold night I'd have a down duvet jacket on. I'd be nowhere near Teesside in snow but if I had a need to be a Keela Munroe top would probably go over the duvet. It's an odd system but there's a mesh and ventilated space which has worked for me before. I suspect there is a condensation risk and therefore a potential problem

Goretex does not get rid of moisture from the interior fast enough. Ventile does but I'm now too fat to get my ventile layers on top ! Buffalo uses Pertex to get rid of interior moisture and a thick fleece for warmth - as long as you keep moving its fine.

The Uk military uses buffalo. The other standard issue is "snugpak" which is a synthetic insulating material that remains warm when wet

I've met several Russian delegations who are superby ill-clad for the job in hand and hence I have few problems with understanding their textile issues

I've always found it amusing when going into the tent shop looking for a new tent. the demand was always the same "it had to pitch flysheet first." It only takes a couple of minutes to put the poles in was oft the reply. I didn't want to get that wet first. My tent has to be dry, same sort of issues as the "cold brigade" ensue if it is not
Surely a T-shirt is sufficient
 
The problem for a lot of Orcs will be that it’s wet and cold, they maybe from much colder places but dry cold so won’t have any conditioning. Sadly many will go to sleep and never wake up.
 
Surely a T-shirt is sufficient
with cap sleeves and 2 love-bites on yer neck - thats the trouble with the central heating generation, they want the glamour of going downtown, but are not prepared to put the style in.


can i just say what a truly remarkable thread this is, given the horrors of the subject matter - its very informative and there is some dark entertainment in it
 
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