The end?

A Russian Bot

seriously ?

Has nothing I have said even been worth considering even just for a second? I userstand this is your thread and you believe what you believe like I believe what I believe I would not call some one a bot simply because I don't have a decent reply to what they have to say

Well most of it was considered and dismissed within a second. But it's a thread for open discussion (hence the question mark in the thread title), so feel free to stick around. But, unless you have actually done some homework on the background to the conflict (and I mean pre 2014) don't expect to be taken too seriously. I'm no fan of US foreign policy, but this war is basically down to Putin's imperialist ambitions which have been known about (particularly in the Baltic region) for many years.
 
A Russian Bot

seriously ?

Has nothing I have said even been worth considering even just for a second? I userstand this is your thread and you believe what you believe like I believe what I believe I would not call some one a bot simply because I don't have a decent reply to what they have to say
I welcome alternative and even adversarial viewpoints, but I do not see the direct causal link between the US taking a direct interest in restoring democracy to Ukraine in 2014 and the West assisting Ukraine following the illegal and frankly heinous invasion by Russia.
Would you care to elucidate and perhaps also suggest what action we should have taken?
 
Well most of it was considered and dismissed within a second. But it's a thread for open discussion (hence the question mark in the thread title), so feel free to stick around. But, unless you have actually done some homework on the background to the conflict (and I mean pre 2014) don't expect to be taken too seriously. I'm no fan of US foreign policy, but this war is basically down to Putin's imperialist ambitions which have been known about (particularly in the Baltic region) for many years.
I am no expert on what goes on with Russia or Ukraine like I said the west always has a sticky dirty hand to play in everything
 
"I am no expert on what goes on with Russia or Ukraine". This much is apparent. Though none of us would consider ourselves experts either, though we may be lucky enough to be better informed than you are, one way or another.
 
I welcome alternative and even adversarial viewpoints, but I do not see the direct causal link between the US taking a direct interest in restoring democracy to Ukraine in 2014 and the West assisting Ukraine following the illegal and frankly heinous invasion by Russia.
Would you care to elucidate and perhaps also suggest what action we should have taken?
One thing I have seen since all this came to light last year was the Donbass region and other close by regions that have been under attack since 2014 , Horrible things have taken place all approved by the west tens of thousands of people killed under constant shelling but I never knew this until this conflict started . Our news channels did not show what has been going on for 8 years .
 
Can't see what's funny about it all to be honest. All NATO Has achieved here is a step closer to all out nuclear war . No one wants that but it will happen the way they are going Russia are not going to lie down and allow regime change in Russia the same as China wont. that is what this is all about and always has been. Destabilise and insert puppet governments a tried a tested method see half of the middle east . These are the same people who told us all Saddam was 45 minutes away from sending weapons of mass destruction to these shores and as we all know that was a total and utter pack of lies. US want's to supply Europe with it's Gas which they are now doing , Russia's gas line blown up , Lots of money been made for the arms industry as usual, I can't believe no one see's all this.
I remember reading - must have been end of 2013 - that Obama and NATO heads had agreed a long-term strategy for taking control of Russia’s mineral wealth. They agreed that, by very subtle positioning and a series of unattributable inducements, that Putin would be encouraged to fulfil his long-held imperialist ambition to recreate a Soviet empire. The plan was to make him initially take over the Crimea and then, after a few years had passed, he would launch a full scale, unprovoked invasion of a sovereign, independent Ukraine.

They collectively agreed to prevent Ukraine from being a NATO member as that would clearly complicate their plan.

The strategy then was to allow the invasion to play out for, say, a year - year and a half, spend huge amounts of money (that they had started to save up in 2014) to prolong the war and, when the time was right, overthrow the Putin regime, replacing it with a cabal of UK/US Mining company Heads. Voila, the End.

They called this ambitious strategy The Dreadnaught Plan. Oh wait….
 
Ill ask a simple question
I remember reading - must have been end of 2013 - that Obama and NATO heads had agreed a long-term strategy for taking control of Russia’s mineral wealth. They agreed that, by very subtle positioning and a series of unattributable inducements, that Putin would be encouraged to fulfil his long-held imperialist ambition to recreate a Soviet empire. The plan was to make him initially take over the Crimea and then, after a few years had passed, he would launch a full scale, unprovoked invasion of a sovereign, independent Ukraine.

They collectively agreed to prevent Ukraine from being a NATO member as that would clearly complicate their plan.

The strategy then was to allow the invasion to play out for, say, a year - year and a half, spend huge amounts of money (that they had started to save up in 2014) to prolong the war and, when the time was right, overthrow the Putin regime, replacing it with a cabal of UK/US Mining company Heads. Voila, the End.

They called this ambitious strategy The Dreadnaught Plan. Oh wait….
Is this true ?

Type in google Dreadnaught Plan all I get is images of ships .
 
I don't want to fight with anyone about Russia / Ukraine . You can all believe what you want I can't change anyone's thoughts . All I know is this the West can not win a war against Russia and to try is suicide they will evaporate us all before they allow that country to become another taken over by western puppets I would sooner stay alive like you all would. I have 2 daughters and I don't want any harm coming to them like all other family people on here don't. The best outcome is NATO stops sending more and more arms the conflict stops and Russia stay where they are. They don't want war with NATO if they did the missiles would have been flying a long time ago. It needs to stop before it ends in total disaster for everyone.
 
One thing I have seen since all this came to light last year was the Donbass region and other close by regions that have been under attack since 2014 , Horrible things have taken place all approved by the west tens of thousands of people killed under constant shelling but I never knew this until this conflict started . Our news channels did not show what has been going on for 8 years .
Russian forces were in Ukraine for years infiltrating and their goal was to destabilise the regions as Russia wanted to claim Eastern Ukraine. Which includes Donbas, lukansk, crimea to name just those few. When they could see they couldn't complete the job they launched the special operation.

Some people get their info direct from people on the ground, iI have/had family in Ukraine and had planned to visit last year but with the war we couldn't go, and now sadly won't get to see some of the family we wanted to see. But one family member is in the Ukraine army and some of the things he's seen the Russians do is just horrific.
 
Sorry to hear this ,

I am no expert like I said earlier the things I have read gave the impression most of the people in the east are more or less Russian speaking Ukrainians who went against the regime change in 2014 and wanted to stay close to Russia . It's a terrible situation I just want it to stop before its too late.
 
One thing I have seen since all this came to light last year was the Donbass region and other close by regions that have been under attack since 2014 , Horrible things have taken place all approved by the west tens of thousands of people killed under constant shelling but I never knew this until this conflict started . Our news channels did not show what has been going on for 8 years .
That does not answer either of my questions Dreadnaught.
 
Sorry to hear this ,

I am no expert like I said earlier the things I have read gave the impression most of the people in the east are more or less Russian speaking Ukrainians who went against the regime change in 2014 and wanted to stay close to Russia . It's a terrible situation I just want it to stop before its too late.
They favoured russian speaking citizens and pushed out or made the lives extremely uncomfortable for the non Russian speaking Ukrainians. Before the war there would of alot of cross border working. I know that in many countries which share land borders with countries which speak similar languages, the people tend to bilingual due generations of migration and or cross border work/travelling and education. I only know this as my wife's family are from near Novoazovsk. My wife can speak some Russian. Its still under occupation. Most managed to leave but her mother and father refused to leave sadly we haven't heard from them since the start of the war.
 
I welcome alternative and even adversarial viewpoints, but I do not see the direct causal link between the US taking a direct interest in restoring democracy to Ukraine in 2014 and the West assisting Ukraine following the illegal and frankly heinous invasion by Russia.
Would you care to elucidate and perhaps also suggest what action we should have taken?
How has democracy been restored in the Ukraine they banned most of the opposition parties and even jailed some of the members of opposition parties . I read this about the US involvement and the whole Warsaw pact I found it interesting all things considered.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...ore-closely/&usg=AOvVaw1O18AmptDQZFtJaobzukhs
 
Anyway

All I am saying is no war with Russia . If anyone seriously wants a full scale war with them they are nuts .

I am all for peace .

sooner the better.
 
And it's why the Finns, a fighty bunch at the best of times, are particularly hostile to Russia. Sweden actually downgraded its defence forces about 10 to 15 years ago as Russia was seen as less of a threat. They had early notice of Putin's grander imperial intentions and rapidly built those forces back up again over the last few years. The Russians were making regular sorties into Sweish territory by air and sea over the last couple of years. The special forces base in Arvidsjar had been mothballed, but is now back up and running. Our man was "retired" from his military and intelligence duties until last year when he was called back into service.
Must have been pretty sickening for the Finns to have to pay war reparations to Russia because they had cooperated with the Germans, who were their enemy's enemy.
 
How has democracy been restored in the Ukraine they banned most of the opposition parties and even jailed some of the members of opposition parties . I read this about the US involvement and the whole Warsaw pact I found it interesting all things considered.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwibqZ2fqrv8AhVQhlwKHfPtCgQQFnoECAsQAQ&url=https://mronline.org/2022/03/31/the-policy-of-the-usa-has-always-been-to-prevent-germany-and-russia-from-cooperating-more-closely/&usg=AOvVaw1O18AmptDQZFtJaobzukhs
You might want to watch "Winter on Fire", it's on Netflix, might open your eyes on Russia's meddling in Ukraines democratic process.

The people of Ukraine want closer ties to Europe and the West, Russia (Putin) is deeply opposed to this.

Is the West supposed to sit and watch whilst a friendly country is invaded and allow systematic genocide to take place.

As other posters have said, they aren't in agreement with much of America's foreign policy, but on this issue and how it has decided to support Ukraine, I don't think there is much that can be criticised.
 
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