The route cause of poverty in the UK

The route causes of poverty are inequality, and the fact that those wishing to conserve (clue in the name) keep getting voted in.
They are good at it, they know how to divide and rule the rest of us.
They get richer ,yhe rest if us stagnate .
Hording money is despicable, having more money that you couldn't spend in one hundred life times but fight tooth and nail to avoid losing any of it, finding ways to avoid paying a small % back in taxes. These people are the problem.
 
It's difficult to identify one root cause but the Oil Crisis of 1973 - and the consequent recessions - made it much more difficult for Western Governments to continue to underwrite the social democratic policies of the postwar period. This give impetus and influence to New-Right theories that had been emerging via the Hayek/Friedman schools throughout the 60s, capturing the likes of Thatcher and Reagan. The consequences of their monetarist policies for places like Middlesbrough, of course, were devastating, leading to the wholesale outsourcing of jobs, mass unemployment, and all the social problems that came in their wake, including benefit dependency, drug misuse/addiction and family breakdown (all breeding grounds for chronic poverty).
At the same time as jobs were disappearing, petro-dollars from the newly enriched oil states were flooding into soon-to-be-deregulated financial markets, giving them a dominance over governments' fiscal planning and flooding the market with cheap money, which pacified workers with easy credit (to make up for stagnating wages). The 2007/8 financial crash put paid to all that easy money and speculation-driven growth, with huge political disaffection. The solution (for economies with many existing in-built advantages) was a focus on productivity and investment; instead in the UK we got property-market bubbles and austerity that laid waste to the civic realm.
 
equaliser said:
It's difficult to identify one root cause but the Oil Crisis of 1973 - and the consequent recessions - made it much more difficult for Western Governments to continue to underwrite the social democratic policies of the postwar period. This give impetus and influence to New-Right theories that had been emerging via the Hayek/Friedman schools throughout the 60s, capturing the likes of Thatcher and Reagan. The consequences of their monetarist policies for places like Middlesbrough, of course, were devastating, leading to the wholesale outsourcing of jobs, mass unemployment, and all the social problems that came in their wake, including benefit dependency, drug misuse/addiction and family breakdown (all breeding grounds for chronic poverty).
At the same time as jobs were disappearing, petro-dollars from the newly enriched oil states were flooding into soon-to-be-deregulated financial markets, giving them a dominance over governments' fiscal planning and flooding the market with cheap money, which pacified workers with easy credit (to make up for stagnating wages). The 2007/8 financial crash put paid to all that easy money and speculation-driven growth, with huge political disaffection. The solution (for economies with many existing in-built advantages) was a focus on productivity and investment; instead in the UK we got property-market bubbles and austerity that laid waste to the civic realm.
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Yet some Western governments have coped pretty well with the situation, looking at their country (their people) as a whole, rather than ditching a fair proportion of them.

We didn't have to take the Reagan/Thatcher option, we chose it as an electorate and shockingly we haven't drifted away from it, despite the devastating effect of it across the country.
 
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viv_andersons_nana said:
People are talking about too recent a history IMO. The grotesque inequality and rising poverty levels are 40-50 years in the making. This is the end point of Thatcherism, or Reaganomics. The system is f*cked. Everybody knows it but nobody says it.

We live under a system that is working perfectly well for those at the top but is f*cked for us. It’s built for those that have to plunder and steal and hoard. That so many are suffering is completely by design. Like when people celebrate Thatcher dying, yeah by all means have a few drinks and a dance, but her politics live on. And that’s the trouble. That’s what needs killing if we are to move forward and progress and lift each other up. You need to kill it at source.
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Completely agree it all goes back to financial deregulation in the 80s today with have global corporations dictating monetary policy and inflicting damage on so many. The protective framework around capitalism has long gone not just in the uk but for most of the western world. I absolutely despair at the future for our children horrendous environmental damage and the prospect for most of living in
relative poverty for the rest of their lives.
 
h_m_boro said:
Capitalism - in theory - can work. It's when greed overcomes the need for a "decent" profit with all parties happy.

Sadly over the past 13 years "capitalism" in its basic form has been well and truly replaced with neo liberal ideology.....which as we are seeing shafts absolutely everyone apart from the uber rich.

And as viv correctly points out, when neo liberalism is combined with industrial scale hoarding and tax avoidance.......and the uber rich doing absolutely anything not to part with £1 - usually by nefarious means - here we are folks.
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Yup - greed and ego beat 'theory every time.
Also see 'socialism'
 
anth25 said:
This is exactly it for me. Capitalism as such isn't the problem it's purely human greed that prevents it from working. Without this greed we could have people earning a good living wage, we could have companies and individuals paying taxes that good be re-invested into a well funded and functioning society and we could have a government that were just in it for themselves.

But unfortunately greed is the ultimate root cause of the poverty we see today and its sickening
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Capitalism with a conscience
Socialism with ambition

It shouldn’t be that hard really to anyone with a soul.
 
In simple terms the returns on capital have exceeded the returns on labour since 1979 which has led to increased poverty for people whose main income in their work.

UK workers have been getting wage rises of 2.5% while rent prices (return on capital) has been around 7% i.e wages have failed to keep up with the cost of living particularly renters. New property buyers have been affected by house inflation of 7% too.

Some services have moved from the public sector to the private sector where people have to pay higher prices too, housing, mental health support, dentistry, hearing support, care support, energy supply, rail and bus travel. telecomms, postal services. Often these services are used more by poorer people as percentage of their income.

We have imported much more of our manufactured goods and some of our services which has reduced job opportunties in the UK and incomes. Its also reduced Government revenue and led to cuts in welfare payments say since the 1970s

Brexit was more the consequence of our problems than the cause. The UK has had increasing poverty since 1979. The poor areas of the UK generally voted to leave the EU not the rich ones.
 
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Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
We didn't have to take the Reagan/Thatcher option, we chose it as an electorate and shockingly we haven't drifted away from it, despite the devastating effect of it across the country.
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!00%, but that's a different question: why did neo-liberal nostrums prove so electorally successful and so persistently influential in the UK?

Probably the biased Press.
 
equaliser said:
!00%, but that's a different question: why did neo-liberal nostrums prove so electorally successful and so persistently influential in the UK?

Probably the biased Press.
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Breakdown of collectivism or divide and rule, too many people encouraged to be ‘entrepreneurs’ by the individualism engendered by Thatcher and Reagan. It’s then all about self wealth rather than self improvement and the upshot is to create new wealth you need to exploit others. Those with inherited wealth just look on. Maybe revolution is round the corner when people realise the con of the populists?
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
People are talking about too recent a history IMO. The grotesque inequality and rising poverty levels are 40-50 years in the making. This is the end point of Thatcherism, or Reaganomics. The system is f*cked. Everybody knows it but nobody says it.

We live under a system that is working perfectly well for those at the top but is f*cked for us. It’s built for those that have to plunder and steal and hoard. That so many are suffering is completely by design. Like when people celebrate Thatcher dying, yeah by all means have a few drinks and a dance, but her politics live on. And that’s the trouble. That’s what needs killing if we are to move forward and progress and lift each other up. You need to kill it at source.
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well said
 
Otto42 said:
Breakdown of collectivism or divide and rule, too many people encouraged to be ‘entrepreneurs’ by the individualism engendered by Thatcher and Reagan. It’s then all about self wealth rather than self improvement and the upshot is to create new wealth you need to exploit others. Those with inherited wealth just look on. Maybe revolution is round the corner when people realise the con of the populists?
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We can only hope, and it won't be televised, as they say.
 
I think the lack of actual inward investment has also crippled us . I worked for a biologics company that’s invested a lot on Teesside but billons in Denmark and the USA . Part of the reason I have been told of the disparity v U.K. was Brexit and the inherent fears of the owners of investing in the U.K. . I’ve also spent a lot of time in both Denmark and the USA ( North Carolina) and the amount of wealth flowing through those parts in areas such as tech and biologics is astronomical and the standard of living , especially in denamrk js mind boggling . I am astounded at the difference in wealth and standard of living. We have no investment coming in and therefore little to offer outwards
 
Johnnyweetabix said:
I think the lack of actual inward investment has also crippled us . I worked for a biologics company that’s invested a lot on Teesside but billons in Denmark and the USA . Part of the reason I have been told of the disparity v U.K. was Brexit and the inherent fears of the owners of investing in the U.K. . I’ve also spent a lot of time in both Denmark and the USA ( North Carolina) and the amount of wealth flowing through those parts in areas such as tech and biologics is astronomical and the standard of living , especially in denamrk js mind boggling . I am astounded at the difference in wealth and standard of living. We have no investment coming in and therefore little to offer outwards
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Oh and I should add to any constitution folks out there … get yourself to Denmark or research triangle park in North Carolina …. Literally can walk into jobs , the shortfall of construction folks is massive and the salaries are crazy and getting higher and higher .
 
I’d simply say the root cause of poverty in one of the wealthiest countries on the planet is the drive for profit…

Look at Vodafone sacking 11000 stag globally despite making £14 billion 🤷🏼‍♂️

I get that profit drives investment and success but surely there needs to be some realisation they end up pricing people out of being able to afford the product or that they need staff to drive forward…
 
Johnnyweetabix said:
I think the lack of actual inward investment has also crippled us . I worked for a biologics company that’s invested a lot on Teesside but billons in Denmark and the USA . Part of the reason I have been told of the disparity v U.K. was Brexit and the inherent fears of the owners of investing in the U.K. . I’ve also spent a lot of time in both Denmark and the USA ( North Carolina) and the amount of wealth flowing through those parts in areas such as tech and biologics is astronomical and the standard of living , especially in denamrk js mind boggling . I am astounded at the difference in wealth and standard of living. We have no investment coming in and therefore little to offer outwards
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Johnnyweetabix said:
Oh and I should add to any constitution folks out there … get yourself to Denmark or research triangle park in North Carolina …. Literally can walk into jobs , the shortfall of construction folks is massive and the salaries are crazy and getting higher and higher .
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That’s interesting, I think our rush to be a service economy has proved detrimental and that we constantly look to the past, possibly a consequence of not losing a world war or having a revolution?
 
The establishment will always find ways to stay in control.
Do we seriously have a democracy when most mps are career politicians, who went to public school then Cambridge.
Only a small percentage of workers are in a trade union . So how can Labour which is owned by the unions claim to represent the ordinary often self employed person ?
 
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