Three points debacle

[Jedi boro]

I feel certain that a senior pro would know the injury/illness status of the first team. And if he didn’t why would he say it?

The whole first team really?? you think a player really cares that much that he knows to the ins and outs of how fit all the squad are inc reserve keepers.

 

[Billy Horner]

I think people are forgetting that we drew 0-0 with Blackburn in the rearranged fixture, so gained a point that we wouldn’t have done had the match been awarded to Blackburn instead. That would have meant we ended up on 41 points not 42.

I listened to robbie mustoe on the boro podcast and he said we couldve put a team out and lost10-0 and then we wouldve stayed up.

If we had played and lost 10-0, we would have been relegated on goal difference. We would have had 41 points and minus 19 goal difference but Coventry had 41 points and minus 16 goal difference.

This is one of the reasons why we should never rely on former footballers to explain the intricacies of the game.

I think awarding the game to Blackburn even as something like a 10 nil defeat (to effect the goal difference as something like a 3-0 defeat doesn't seem a sufficient deterrent to teams who fear they might get a pasting) would have been fairer.

As above. If the punishment had been a 10-0 defeat, we would have been relegated on goal difference.

 

[Jedi boro]

Btw this was in an era when there a huge rift in the camp between the foreign players and the rest with some contacting their agents ( emmo) and ex clubs ( rav faxing trappatoni at juve for a coaching fitness plan) so I doubt anyone knew what anyone was doing back then.

we didn’t even know if emmo would even show up some weeks!!!!

 

[Adi_Dem]

Btw this was in an era when there a huge rift in the camp between the foreign players and the rest with some contacting their agents ( emmo) and ex clubs ( rav faxing trappatoni at juve for a coaching fitness plan) so I doubt anyone knew what anyone was doing back then.

we didn’t even know if emmo would even show up some weeks!!!!

Zorro, you’re just building a narrative to suit your argument. Of course I think a first team player would be aware if his teammates were ill!

 

[Jedi boro]

Right you honestly think a squad that could barely look at one another at times such was the contempt, look at the Neil Cox - rav scenario before the cup final that must have been brewing for months.

it wasn’t a happy camp

there was resentment over wages so yes I do question if a player would know the full picture.

 

[Adi_Dem]

Right you honestly think a squad that could barely look at one another at times such was the contempt, look at the Neil Cox - rav scenario before the cup final that must have been brewing for months.

it wasn’t a happy camp

there was resentment over wages so yes I do question if a player would know the full picture.

I believe an honest ex pro telling us that he knew which of the first team was available and training and which were ill at a time when apparently there were loads of people ill and players were being asked to stay away from training is probably best placed to comment. I also believe that if he didn’t know then he wouldn’t say that he did.

As I said you’re creating this very odd scenario where an ex player is lying or can’t remember on the basis that he couldn’t possibly know whether his first team colleagues were fit or not because they didn’t all get on. It is a really really weird take.

 

[newyddion]

That’s not my recollection. Any links?

The Ravenelli think stuck in my mind from when it happened Redknapp singling out him in particular and later comments from the man himself, Juninho recently stated that he could have played and i'm guessing with Emerson (this around the time we brought Fabio if my memory serves me right)

I would have thought that 'the fax' showing our 23 sick/injured players would have done the rounds by now and/or Robbo's Blackburn XI would have been discussed either on tv or at one of these meet and greet events/after dinner Q&As

It is a massive moment in the history of this club with more players coming out saying it was defo the clubs fault and we could have fielded a team. I for one think there was more to it than injuries & flu. Ravanelli stirring things up about unprofessionalism at the same time as Barca & Inter Milan stalking Emerson for a move.

 

[Jedi boro]

From Higgy

"He was spiky and caused a few problems some of the things he'd say, but you couldn't argue with what he did on the pitch, 30-odd goals - phenomenal.
Gazette

“Half of the squad hated him and the other half loved him,” midfielder Craig Hignett later told FourFourTwo, describing his new team-mate as the 90s equivalent of Lionel Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo when it came to talent alone.

“He worked hard and he was one of the best finishers I’d seen, but as a man he rubbed people up the wrong way. He was selfish in everything he did”.


So like I said not a happy camp

 

[newyddion]

Btw this was in an era when there a huge rift in the camp between the foreign players and the rest with some contacting their agents ( emmo) and ex clubs ( rav faxing trappatoni at juve for a coaching fitness plan) so I doubt anyone knew what anyone was doing back then.

we didn’t even know if emmo would even show up some weeks!!!!

We'd put a bid in for Barcelona's Miguel Ángel Nadal (which was rejected) and we'd made an enquiry about Paul Ince from Inter.

Either Juninho or Emerson said something along the lines them coming to win the premier league not just to compete in it, we were making moves and they were happy with that. Ravenelli was much more impatient and critical of english training/diet/lifestyle

 

[Jedi boro]

I believe an honest ex pro telling us that he knew which of the first team was available and training and which were ill at a time when apparently there were loads of people ill and players were being asked to stay away from training is probably best placed to comment. I also believe that if he didn’t know then he wouldn’t say that he did.

As I said you’re creating this very odd scenario where an ex player is lying or can’t remember on the basis that he couldn’t possibly know whether his first team colleagues were fit or not because they didn’t all get on. It is a really really weird take.

I’m not saying he’s lying I said I doubt he would know the full picture even if he thought he did as only the medical staff and the manager really knew and last time checked Robbie wasn’t in either.

 

[newyddion]

From Higgy

"He was spiky and caused a few problems some of the things he'd say, but you couldn't argue with what he did on the pitch, 30-odd goals - phenomenal.
Gazette

“Half of the squad hated him and the other half loved him,” midfielder Craig Hignett later told FourFourTwo, describing his new team-mate as the 90s equivalent of Lionel Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo when it came to talent alone.

“He worked hard and he was one of the best finishers I’d seen, but as a man he rubbed people up the wrong way. He was selfish in everything he did”.


So like I said not a happy camp

Sounds like he was trying to pull everyone up to his level

 

[Adi_Dem]

I’m not saying he’s lying I said I doubt he would know the full picture even if he thought he did as only the medical staff and the manager really knew and last time checked Robbie wasn’t in either.

And as I said you’re creating a ridiculous scenario to back up a view. It’s largely irrelevant to the question anyway. My recollection and everything I’ve read confirms that our three star players were out. Either way, we have nobody but ourselves to blame for the points deduction.

 

[newyddion]

I believe an honest ex pro telling us that he knew which of the first team was available and training and which were ill at a time when apparently there were loads of people ill and players were being asked to stay away from training is probably best placed to comment. I also believe that if he didn’t know then he wouldn’t say that he did.

As I said you’re creating this very odd scenario where an ex player is lying or can’t remember on the basis that he couldn’t possibly know whether his first team colleagues were fit or not because they didn’t all get on. It is a really really weird take.

Juninho was coming back from an injury (may have been available), Ravenelli was available and Emerson (who had played the Liverpool game before) may well have jetted off to brazil and back.. I think he was fit (apart from the broken toe her had for the full season)

 

[Jedi boro]

My recollection

It seems was wrong as Rav was fit


In an outburst in Italian newspaper Gazzetta dello Sport former Juventus striker Ravanelli admitted: "I reckon we will be relegated, I'm almost certain of it."
Ravanelli mocked Robson's decision to give the players a break after Christmas even though they had slumped to the bottom of the table.
He added: "I can't even get angry any more. We are the tailenders. We have hardly any hopes of salvation and they give us three days off. The situation, I am very sorry to say is truly tragic."

 

[newyddion]

It seems was wrong as Rav was fit


In an outburst in Italian newspaper Gazzetta dello Sport former Juventus striker Ravanelli admitted: "I reckon we will be relegated, I'm almost certain of it."
Ravanelli mocked Robson's decision to give the players a break after Christmas even though they had slumped to the bottom of the table.
He added: "I can't even get angry any more. We are the tailenders. We have hardly any hopes of salvation and they give us three days off. The situation, I am very sorry to say is truly tragic."

He flew off to Italy missing the rescheduled Blackburn game with an apparent back injury.. Curtis Fleming didn't sound too convinced.

“I hope that Ravanelli flies back from Italy,” he told the Gazette.

“I hope he is not just concentrating on being fit for the last game of the season, which is the FA Cup final.

“If he has a back problem, he should be here.

“We have a much bigger game at Leeds on Sunday than the FA Cup final. He should be doing everything to try to be fit for Sunday.”

One goal against Blackburn keeps the boro up and sends Coventry down on goal difference.

 

[Otto42]

I think people are forgetting that we drew 0-0 with Blackburn in the rearranged fixture, so gained a point that we wouldn’t have done had the match been awarded to Blackburn instead. That would have meant we ended up on 41 points not 42.



If we had played and lost 10-0, we would have been relegated on goal difference. We would have had 41 points and minus 19 goal difference but Coventry had 41 points and minus 16 goal difference.

This is one of the reasons why we should never rely on former footballers to explain the intricacies of the game.



As above. If the punishment had been a 10-0 defeat, we would have been relegated on goal difference.

Wouldn't we have had 44 points then though?

 

[Jedi boro]

If we’re being honest that season was so shrouded in mystery and rumour that I doubt only Robbo and gibson knew the full story.
There was open hatred between some of the players.
so to question a players recollection of such a tumultuous season I think is fair.

 

[Billy Horner]

Wouldn't we have had 44 points then though?

No, we’d have had 41.

We ended up on 39 points as a result of the 3 point deduction, so remove that and we’d have 42. However, if you award the fixture to Blackburn (or if we’d played the original fixture and lost), then we wouldn’t have gained a draw in the rearranged game, so would have ended up with 41 points.

 

[newyddion]

If we’re being honest that season was so shrouded in mystery and rumour that I doubt only Robbo and gibson knew the full story.
There was open hatred between some of the players.
so to question a players recollection of such a tumultuous season I think is fair.

I don't think the truth will ever come out, Robson could never name a side that looked anywhere near decent else he would be criticized for not fielding the team.

Ben Roberts had the virus/flu so who were the 3 first team goalkeepers available December 1996?
Chris Freestone had the virus/flu but hardly ever featured
Robbie Mustoe was injured

Juninho was coming back from injury.. but said he could have played
another player was coming back from injury who was available

 

[Otto42]

No, we’d have had 41.

We ended up on 39 points as a result of the 3 point deduction, so remove that and we’d have 42. However, if you award the fixture to Blackburn (or if we’d played the original fixture and lost), then we wouldn’t have gained a draw in the rearranged game, so would have ended up with 41 points.

So award the original game three nil to Blackburn and we stay up on goal difference! All ifs and buts and maybes now though!