Vaping is rank

Priv said:
Let’s see if they say the same in 5-10 years, I reckon they probably wouldn’t.

Though using excessive is not a fair comparison, I expect a social drinker will have far less health issues than a regular Vapor long term.
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Vapes have been around since 2003 and available in the uk since 2005. According to the NHS there is insufficient evidence to draw conclusions around the long term impact of vaping. They concede that if vaping does have a long term impact, it will be substantially less than smoking, and they see no long term impacts in the available evidence, assuming you don't have chest or breathing conditions.

It isn't just that there is insufficient evidence of long term harm. There is no evidence of long term harm. In fact, we do know that stopping smoking and switching to vaping halts the onset of COPD. It doesn't reverse it, but then ceasing altogether doesn't reverse it either.

There is no evidence that second hand vapour is harmful, but advise not to do it around children.

Ignoring the proliferation of disposable vapes aimed at children, vaping, as aknowledged by NICE and the NHS, is a huge step forward from the perspective of public health.

Also carbon monoxide tests performed on folks who vape show the same levels as a non-smoker. Carbon monoxide is the most dangerous chemical produced from conventional cigarettes, e-cigrarettes don't produce carbon monoxide.

So it is very unlikely that an A&E doctor in 5 or 10 years time will change their opinion on alcohol v e-cigarettes.

I understand that lots don't like it, and thats fine. For smokers who find it very difficult to quit, it is an absoloute gift and denying them a much safer option is ridiculous because some don't like the smell.
 
Laughing said:
Vapes have been around since 2003 and available in the uk since 2005. According to the NHS there is insufficient evidence to draw conclusions around the long term impact of vaping. They concede that if vaping does have a long term impact, it will be substantially less than smoking, and they see no long term impacts in the available evidence, assuming you don't have chest or breathing conditions.

It isn't just that there is insufficient evidence of long term harm. There is no evidence of long term harm. In fact, we do know that stopping smoking and switching to vaping halts the onset of COPD. It doesn't reverse it, but then ceasing altogether doesn't reverse it either.

There is no evidence that second hand vapour is harmful, but advise not to do it around children.

Ignoring the proliferation of disposable vapes aimed at children, vaping, as aknowledged by NICE and the NHS, is a huge step forward from the perspective of public health.

Also carbon monoxide tests performed on folks who vape show the same levels as a non-smoker. Carbon monoxide is the most dangerous chemical produced from conventional cigarettes, e-cigrarettes don't produce carbon monoxide.

So it is very unlikely that an A&E doctor in 5 or 10 years time will change their opinion on alcohol v e-cigarettes.

I understand that lots don't like it, and thats fine. For smokers who find it very difficult to quit, it is an absoloute gift and denying them a much safer option is ridiculous because some don't like the smell.
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It's not just the smell - they contain nicotine and other noxious substances that I have no desire to inhale. It needs much stronger regulation.
 
NYboro said:
It's not just the smell - they contain nicotine and other noxious substances that I have no desire to inhale. It needs much stronger regulation.
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I would tend to agree that vaping should probably be illegal indoors. However, according to the NHS, there is no evidence that secondary vaping causes any harm, assuming you don't have chest or breathing problems.

The vapour exhaled does have trace particulates of nicotine. The e-juice on sale in the USA does contain trace amounts of diacetyl, but that isn't in the uk available e-cigarettes, in fact it is banned.

What are these other noxious chemicals you are referring to?
 
Laughing said:
I would tend to agree that vaping should probably be illegal indoors. However, according to the NHS, there is no evidence that secondary vaping causes any harm, assuming you don't have chest or breathing problems.

The vapour exhaled does have trace particulates of nicotine. The e-juice on sale in the USA does contain trace amounts of diacetyl, but that isn't in the uk available e-cigarettes, in fact it is banned.

What are these other noxious chemicals you are referring to?
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Cadmium and lead have certainly been quoted as being in the illegal ones that are widely used.
 
NYboro said:
It's not just the smell - they contain nicotine and other noxious substances that I have no desire to inhale. It needs much stronger regulation.
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Nicotine is no worse than caffeine, and nobody could ever get addicted to nicotine from second-hand vape, it disperses too fast in free air, and also has extremely low absorption through inhalation. This is why vapers have to use it more than a cigarette, for example, and they're breathing in probably 100x what a second-hand breather would be. It's not anywhere near the same absorption rate as smoking for example, the hit on that is instantaneous, and I've never noticed a hit from second-hand smoke either. Even using 18mg vape liquid doesn't give an instant nicotine hit, not like smoking, and most people are using 3-6mg liquid.

As for the other substances, there are only really three, and they've all been in safe use for over 50 years. Most people probably use or come into contact with these every day (including non vapers).
Vegetable glycerin, just comes from vegetable oils, used as a sweetener and is used in food, cosmetics, toothpaste and various over-the-counter medicine
Propylene Glycol, used as a sweetner in drinks, used in ice cream/ dairy products, used in dough, also used in medicine
Falvourings, used in food

Sure, these things also occur in some bad products, but these aren't the "bad" parts of those.

I 100% agree that people have a right to not be breathing this in though, second-hand, but it's not likely to be doing anyone any damage.
 
Laughing said:
I would tend to agree that vaping should probably be illegal indoors. However, according to the NHS, there is no evidence that secondary vaping causes any harm, assuming you don't have chest or breathing problems.

The vapour exhaled does have trace particulates of nicotine. The e-juice on sale in the USA does contain trace amounts of diacetyl, but that isn't in the uk available e-cigarettes, in fact it is banned.

What are these other noxious chemicals you are referring to?
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It's not like we have a rampant virus going round causing breathing difficulties for millions of people at least is it?

It definitely should be banned anywhere that smoking is banned, I honestly thought it already was.
 
NYboro said:
Cadmium and lead have certainly been quoted as being in the illegal ones that are widely used.
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When you say widely used, what does this mean numbers-wise? Half the vapers, 1 in 10, or 1 in 100 etc?
I must know maybe 20 people who vape (all ex-smokers to one degree or another), and they're all on over-the-counter and legal liquid, never even heard anyone mention illegal liquid to be honest.

It's nowhere near as widely used as drugs for example, or people driving home after two pints in the pub etc.
 
Andy_W said:
When you say widely used, what does this mean numbers-wise? Half the vapers, 1 in 10, or 1 in 100 etc?
I must know maybe 20 people who vape (all ex-smokers to one degree or another), and they're all on over-the-counter and legal liquid, never even heard anyone mention illegal liquid to be honest.

It's nowhere near as widely used as drugs for example, or people driving home after two pints in the pub etc.
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I regularly walk acros the park in front of QE sixth form college in Darlington. At lunch time it's packed with kids vaping. Occasionally you read in the paper about one or two small shops that have had illegal vapes confiscated, but they're back selling them again the next day.
 
NYboro said:
I regularly walk acros the park in front of QE sixth form college in Darlington. At lunch time it's packed with kids vaping. Occasionally you read in the paper about one or two small shops that have had illegal vapes confiscated, but they're back selling them again the next day.
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Do you mean illegal devices, liquids or just selling them to those underage? I've never known of illegal devices or liquids mind, I don't see what the point would be, other than maybe a larger tank (but that only really saves the annoyance of refilling).

If it's underage use, why doesn't the college do something about it (assuming the law allows them to)?

If you walked across the front of my college in the late 90's you will have seen loads of people smoking, or they wouldn't have even been there as they were all in bed, hammered from the night before (and smoking). Even if there are twice as many vapers, as there would otherwise be smokers, it's still far better health-wise, as the risk is far less than 50% of smoking. You would probably need more than 10x the number of potential smokers, and I doubt that's happening.

How many of them are overweight, or do no exercise? That's a far, far bigger problem, but you don't see people wanting to take the kids mars bar away or tell him he's wrong for eating it.
 
Corner shops seem to do a great trade in illegal disposables and don't care about the ages of those buying them. Having then confiscated seems to be just a cost of doing business. I doubt a sixth form college can do much, as schools seem to be unable to do anything.
 
NYboro said:
Cadmium and lead have certainly been quoted as being in the illegal ones that are widely used.
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Quite possibly NYBoro, in the US they are legislated very poorly. You won't find them in any uk poduced vape juice though. I can't really comment on unregulated illegal substance.
 
NYboro said:
Corner shops seem to do a great trade in illegal disposables and don't care about the ages of those buying them. Having then confiscated seems to be just a cost of doing business. I doubt a sixth form college can do much, as schools seem to be unable to do anything.
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The police have to deal with this. Like any legislation, it;s worthless if nobody enforces it
 
coluka said:
Those vaping need to wake up and accept it is harmful and addictive. Medics getting worried.


Vapes Need Banning



Quadrupling of Hospitalisation in Kids
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This was posted quite some time ago. It specifically talks about children. Children shouldn't be vaping. There is legislation to stop this, having a motivated, sufficiently funded police force might be the first step.

In addition the Royal college of Paediatrics have called for a ban on single use vapes, not vaping more generally, which for smokers, has some definite positives. They want single use vapes, like elf sticks banning because they specifically target kids.

Not sure anyone supporting vaping would argue with any of that.
 
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