Viktor Gyökeres

[coluka]

Most headed goals in the Championship, 5 more than Gyokeres' 2 so yeah, I reckon he's alright in the air.

Chuba scored more headed goals than 6 teams did all season, including Coventry

So what how many good chances has he missed? What is his conversion rate of headed chances created. He had a great chance in the away leg and fluffed it, not for the first time. You probably think he is a good penalty taker too, I don’t. He is a decent player nonetheless. Obviously you don’t respect others views, your emoji certainly implies as such, no worries lets see if Chuba gets to 15 next season in a very different squad. If Gyokeres somehow remained in the Championship (unlikely) I’d suggest he’d outscore Chuba next season and by saying that I mean no disrespect to Akpom.

 

[coluka]

The stats don’t agree with you col!

What is his conversion rate on headers to chances created?

 

[Quicksilvera]

No doubt he's good at this level but I honestly wouldn't go near him, I said as much last summer for the price they wanted. We need to be the team buying Gyokeres from Brighton, not paying stupid money for a player that is more than likely the most expensive he will ever be.

I agree with you but it’s easier said than done but let’s see what Scott has up his sleeve!

 

[Uwefuchs]

Akpom outperformed his xG by 6 goals, Gyokeres outperformed his by 1.5 goals. Akpom was a far better finisher this season, it's not even a debate to be honest.

The question is whether Akpom can do it again next season but based on this season it's not even close between the 2 for me.

I was just about to post the same thing, I know we all love Chuba but if we turned down a big bid in the summer and he reverts back to his goal scoring form of the rest of his career we'll be kicking ourselves.

I'm not advocating selling him but its obviously something that will cross the minds of Gibson, Carrick and Co.

 

[Quicksilvera]

So what how many good chances has he missed? What is his conversion rate of headed chances created. He had a great chance in the away leg and fluffed it, not for the first time. You probably think he is a good penalty taker too, I don’t. He is a decent player nonetheless. Obviously you don’t respect others views, your emoji certainly implies as such, no worries lets see if Chuba gets to 15 next season in a very different squad. If Gyokeres somehow remained in the Championship (unlikely) I’d suggest he’d outscore Chuba next season and by saying that I mean no disrespect to Akpom.

Jesus

 

[Andy_W]

What do you think he's better at than Chuba?

If I listed all their attributes and looked at what would suit a Carrick side I think the only thing he has over Chuba is strength and possibly work rate. He isn't a better finisher, he's not better in the air, he doesn't have a better first touch, he isn't as quick as Chuba, he isn't as good at linking up play.

Time will tell but he's not even close to being a good Premier League player, I have no doubt someone might take a chance on him but in my opinion he won't succeed at that level.

They're different players, Gyokeres gives a different option to the way you can play, and he will always occupy 2-3 players.

Gyokeres didn't look great against us, but it took us 2-3 players to make that happen, and if you need to do that then you're losing out in so many other ways.

As he was occupying two players it made Coventry be able to sit so many back, which was why Archer and Chuba both didn't have a sniff in three games, they had an almost impossible task.

Put Gyokeres in a good team, which doesn't need to sit so many back as they have little all else and he would do even better.

 

[Loop]

He ran our defence ragged yesterday. He's a cracking player, strong, tenacious and doesn't go missing. He has that nasty edge too & never stops moaning total nightmare for defenders. You could see his talent when we first played them.

 

[Uwefuchs]

They're different players,

That should probably be the last word on it really

 

[Chappy112]

So what how many good chances has he missed? What is his conversion rate of headed chances created. He had a great chance in the away leg and fluffed it, not for the first time. You probably think he is a good penalty taker too, I don’t. He is a decent player nonetheless. Obviously you don’t respect others views, your emoji certainly implies as such, no worries lets see if Chuba gets to 15 next season in a very different squad. If Gyokeres somehow remained in the Championship (unlikely) I’d suggest he’d outscore Chuba next season and by saying that I mean no disrespect to Akpom.

The stats are all there to be read, Akpom is a far better finisher than Gyokeres statistically.

Akpom's conversion rate is 22.1% to Gyokeres 12%. Gyokeres missed the most big chances in the division with 19. Akpom had the chances to score 0.64 goals per game, he scored 0.81. Gyokeres had the chances to score 0.44 goals per game, he scored 0.47.

Not saying Akpom won't regress towards the mean next year but just based off this season it's not even close.

 

[the_dormouse]

We have lost one game and Akpom,Archer and everyone else are useless the disloyalty on here is incredible .Our defence kept Gyokeres quiet for two and a half games but he was going to get away one time and he did.Coventry did a karanka on us but that doesn't make us a bad team or Carrick a bad manager.It is easier in football to be negative than positive and Coventry defended brilliantly.

 

[Chappy112]

I was just about to post the same thing, I know we all love Chuba but if we turned down a big bid in the summer and he reverts back to his goal scoring form of the rest of his career we'll be kicking ourselves.

I'm not advocating selling him but its obviously something that will cross the minds of Gibson, Carrick and Co.

I'm honestly not against it, sell high while you can, I love Chuba and I think he's the best player in the league by a mile(not including potential relegated teams) but if someone comes in with a daft bid of £15m-£20m and the club think they can buy 3-4 younger players to improve the squad, players who will grow in value under Carrick then I don't have a problem with that.

Especially when he only has a year left on his contract.

 

[Andy_W]

Akpom has scored more headed goals and has a better conversion rate this season, whilst playing as a number 10.

They're not even playing in the same position, so I'm not sure why people are putting down Akpom to praise him.

They're not comparable players, they play in completely different positions but we know Akpom isn't effective up top, especially not on his own. Gyokeres wouldn't suit a no 10, but I'm sure he'd love the chances a no 10 gets by being able to arrive late in the box often unmarked (which Chuba excells at).

This isn't putting Akpom down though, nobody in their right mind would do that.

 

[Uwefuchs]

We have lost one game and Akpom,Archer and everyone else are useless the disloyalty on here is incredible .Our defence kept Gyokeres quiet for two and a half games but he was going to get away one time and he did.Coventry did a karanka on us but that doesn't make us a bad team or Carrick a bad manager.It is easier in football to be negative than positive and Coventry defended brilliantly.

No one's called them useless have they?

 

[coluka]

The stats are all there to be read, Akpom is a far better finisher than Gyokeres statistically.

Akpom's conversion rate is 22.1% to Gyokeres 12%. Gyokeres missed the most big chances in the division with 19. Akpom had the chances to score 0.64 goals per game, he scored 0.81. Gyokeres had the chances to score 0.44 goals per game, he scored 0.47.

Not saying Akpom won't regress towards the mean next year but just based off this season it's not even close.

Are those aerial figures you quote on Akpom, as that was what our previous comments related to not overall conversion? Is their a stats site that shows Akpom conversion rate on headers compared to others in the league?

 

[Chappy112]

Are those aerial figures you quote on Akpom, as that was what our previous comments related to not overall conversion? Is their a stats site that shows Akpom conversion rate on headers compared to others in the league?

Don't think you'll find headed conversion rate without something like wyscout but I'm pretty sure his header conversion rate must be up there with the best in the league given all the other stats.

He missed 2 penalties as well which account for like 0.8 expected goals, makes his goals to expected goals ratio even more impressive.

 

[Andy_W]

Akpom outperformed his xG by 6 goals, Gyokeres outperformed his by 1.5 goals. Akpom was a far better finisher this season, it's not even a debate to be honest.

The question is whether Akpom can do it again next season but based on this season it's not even close between the 2 for me.

Difficult to compare xG for players, as much as I like the xG stats.

But to look at xG for players you would need to look at +/- xG as a percentage, not a fixed number. So as Chuba's had plenty of chances in a creative team, he's probably had double the chances to do it, so his xG over should be double as a baseline. Effectively there's maybe ~3 in it, rather than the 4.5 it appears to show.

It also doesn't factor for the work put in for others, and Chuba's largely not had to create those on his own after a long run/ fight etc.

Give them both the same chances, under the same circumstances and they would be fairly close I expect, maybe 1 or two in it, in chubas favour, but they just do it in completely different ways. It's the different way which Gyokeres does it which makes him so good, they can nullify probably the most attacking team in the league by it, and they did it for three games in a row.

 

[Andy_W]

We have lost one game and Akpom,Archer and everyone else are useless the disloyalty on here is incredible .Our defence kept Gyokeres quiet for two and a half games but he was going to get away one time and he did.Coventry did a karanka on us but that doesn't make us a bad team or Carrick a bad manager.It is easier in football to be negative than positive and Coventry defended brilliantly.

Calm down straw man, nobody has said Chuba or Archer are useless, everyone is saying the opposite.

You're not understanding what it took to keep Gyokeres quiet (2-3 players). This let them have 9 v 7 on our attacks and we couldn't break them down, which is also why they kept every single one of our forwards quiet (and we've been scoring more than everyone)..

With one or two players Coventry outdid us over three games with an inferior squad, all because one player lets them set up the way they did, and yet still be able to create chances.

Also didn't help that we had a few injuries of course.

 

[Chappy112]

But to look at xG for players you would need to look at +/- xG as a percentage, not a fixed number. So as Chuba's had plenty of chances in a creative team, he's probably had double the chances to do it, so his xG over should be double as a baseline. Effectively there's maybe ~3 in it, rather than the 4.5 it appears to show.

How do you figure this? Double the chances? Gyokeres has had 47 more shots than Chuba. Unless I'm just not following what you're saying.

His conversion rate is 10% better than Gyokeres.

 

[Philly-Red]

I'd have Hamer over Gyokeres.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

You're comparing him to the wrong player. Archer was up front for us, Gyokeres for them.