Wembley Tonight: England v Germany thread. Is it all over for Southgate?


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Its not all over.....until its over

There is mounting pressure for Southgate to go.
After a poor run of results and performances well below par.
If he goes - will it be after the World Cup?
Got booed off after England`s last performance.
He`s done a great deal for English football and the English Team, but is it all over for Gareth Southgate?



Preview: England vs. Germany - prediction, team news, lineups

By Ben Knapton, Senior Reporter | 2d

England and Germany will only play for pride when the two European giants round off League A Group 3 in the UEFA Nations League at Wembley Stadium on Monday night.

The Three Lions were condemned to relegation to League B after a 1-0 defeat to Italy on Friday night, while Hansi Flick's men saw their hopes of first place crash and burn with a loss to Hungary by the same scoreline.

Match preview

Giacomo Raspadori celebrates scoring for Italy against England on September 23, 2022
© Reuters
Many have referred to the current England crop as the golden generation, which is no surprise given the abundance of attacking and youthful talent on display at domestic level, but the Three Lions are now on their worst goalscoring run for 22 years.

The much-maligned Gareth Southgate once again saw his side fail to score from open play in a 1-0 defeat to Italy at San Siro last time out, with Napoli forward Giacomo Raspadori coming up with a brilliant winner for the Azzurri to seal England's relegation to League B.
Still winless after five games in League A Group 3, Southgate's side have now failed to score in three successive matches for the first time since 2000, and their solitary goal in the tournament so far has been a Harry Kane penalty - simply unacceptable for a footballing nation of this calibre.

To say that morale will be at a low point going into the World Cup would be a significant understatement, and the Three Lions boss did not do himself any favours with the #SouthgateOut brigade by claiming that Friday's performance was a "step in the right direction".

A five-game winless streak for the first time in 2014 and failure to score from open play in 495 minutes can hardly be seen as a step in the right direction for England, but a return to Wembley is just what the doctor ordered, as the Euro 2020 runners-up are unbeaten in 15 games at their headquarters - winning 13 of them.

Germany boss Hansi Flick on September 20, 2022
© Reuters
England and Germany would have been expected to be involved in a tense three-way battle for top spot in League A Group 3, but Hungary are now riding off into the sunset after prevailing 1-0 against Hansi Flick's side while the Three Lions were quelled in Italy.

A moment of backheel magic from Adam Szalai in the 17th minute was all it took for the Magyars to sink Germany in Leipzig, and Die Mannschaft - who sit two points behind Italy in third - can now only finish second at best in their Nations League group.
Besides a 5-2 thumping of the European champions back in June, Flick's side have also been alarmingly underwhelming in the Nations League, failing to win any of their other four games or keep a clean sheet, and Die Mannschaft are yet to make the final four of the competition.

Defeat to Hungary marked Germany's first defeat in any competition since Euro 2020, and the visitors to Wembley have surprisingly only picked up one win from their seven Nations League away games since the competition's inception, conceding at least one goal each time.

Prior to being undone by Szalai, Germany's most recent loss was their 2-0 Euro 2020 last-16 defeat to England at Wembley 15 months ago, and the two sides played out a 1-1 draw earlier in the Nations League, marking the solitary time that the Three Lions have made the net ripple in the 2022-23 edition.

Team News​

Ivan Toney in action for Brentford on September 18, 2022
© Reuters
Southgate took the bold decision to leave Ivan Toney, Ben Chilwell and Marc Guehi out of his squad for the trip to San Siro, but all three have made the cut here, with Trent Alexander-Arnold, Fikayo Tomori, Jarrod Bowen and James Ward-Prowse missing out instead.

John Stones will also return from a ban served in the win over Italy - although Jack Grealish is now serving a suspension of his own - and Southgate is confident that Jordan Henderson will be fit to play some part on Monday as he battles back from a hamstring issue, but the Liverpool man may not be considered for a start.

Bukayo Saka notably struggled to adapt to his left-wing back role at San Siro, and Southgate will of course ponder plenty of changes this week, with Aaron Ramsdale, Kieran Trippier, Luke Shaw and Mason Mount among those ready to provide fresh legs.

Meanwhile, Germany lost Bayern Munich stalwarts Leon Goretzka and Manuel Neuer to COVID-19 infection prior to the loss to Hungary, while Julian Brandt was also forced to leave the camp owing to a different illness.

Real Madrid centre-back Antonio Rudiger picked up his second booking of the tournament on Friday and will be absent here - either Thilo Kehrer, Nico Schlotterbeck or Matthias Ginter will take his place - but Germany did not pick up any fresh injury concerns in Leipzig.

With the Bayern-based Mannschaft attack and Timo Werner proving ineffective last time out, Kai Havertz can expect to force his way into the first XI here, and Jamal Musiala will also be determined to impress after snubbing England to represent Germany at senior level.

England possible starting lineup:
Ramsdale; Stones, Dier, Maguire; Trippier, Rice, Bellingham, Chilwell; Mount; Kane, Sterling

Germany possible starting lineup:
Ter Stegen; Hofmann, Sule, Schlotterbeck, Raum; Kimmich, Gundogan; Musiala, Muller, Sane; Havertz

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October 7, 2000
World Cup 2002 qualifier
England 0
Germany 1 (Hamann 14)

Wembley Stadium’s last-ever game before its redevelopment in 2000 was a fitting encounter as England and Germany did battle in a qualifying match for World Cup 2002. The game itself however was a disappointing affair and the result even more so for England, as Dietmar Hamann’s 14th-minute goal gave the visitors all three points. England manager Kevin Keegan resigned shortly after the match but his replacement Sven-Goran Eriksson guided the Three Lions to the World Cup, thanks in part to a 5-1 defeat of Germany in the return game in Munich in September, 2001.




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Gareth Southgate:

Gareth Southgate calls for unity, with England future dependent on World Cup success​

Gareth Southgate has admitted that the World Cup will decide his future as England manager, despite a contract that runs until Euro 2024.

The 52-year-old is currently on his worst run during six years in the job, a spell that has been accompanied by criticism and significant supporter unrest. Southgate urged the Wembley crowd to “support” the team ahead of the last match before the World Cup, a final Nations League game against Germany in a group that has already seen England relegated. The manager insisted that a sense of togetherness and support was the best way to get the players performing with freedom, in a period where they have scored only once in five games.

It summed up the mood, though, that Southgate ended up addressing his future. His current contract is now primarily based on tournament performance, with two notionally left on this deal. Southgate nevertheless admitted that was “irrelevant”.

“I know ultimately I will be judged on what happens at that World Cup,” the England manager said. “Contracts are irrelevant in football because managers can have three, four, five-year contracts and you accept that if results are not good enough it is time to go your separate ways. Why would I be any different? I am not arrogant enough to think that my contract is going to protect me in any way.”

The Football Association has been fully supportive of Southgate throughout this run, in private as well as in public, and there is naturally no chance of a change before the World Cup.
“And I am absolutely appreciative of that,” he said. “But of course we understand how the mood changes with the results – and has changed. I am realistic about that – I will be judged on what we do in Qatar and I am perfectly happy to be judged in that way. History is history – you are judged on the next match and the next tournament.”

Southgate also spoke of the need for a supportive crowd at Wembley on Monday, as he admitted he clearly sensed the mood was coming to a tipping point. The manager’s main concern has been not letting that “noise” affect the players, which is why a positive atmosphere at Wembley was important.

“Of course it’s not healthy for the team to be having this noise around them, I fully understand that. But it’s for me to take responsibility; it’s for me to allow them to go and play. I want them to feel the freedom. I think they know that we always talk about that within the training ground and on the training pitch.

“I would urge the supporters to get behind the team. How they deal with me at the end or whenever, on the phone-ins or wherever else, is completely different. But this is their last chance to see the boys before they go to the World Cup. And we’re all in it together. We can succeed only if we’re all pushing in the same direction and we’ve all got that positive energy towards doing well.

“What happens to me is irrelevant, frankly. It’s about the team. The most important thing is the team and the success of the team.”
Southgate stressed how that “positive energy”, which marked such a change from previous England failures, had been crucial.

“I think we know that part of the reason we've been successful in the [recent] tournaments has been the feeling of togetherness. We can’t succeed with fans against us, or you guys not feeling warm towards us. I think that’s been a huge strength of what’s happened over the last four or five years, and it’s harder if we’re having to battle with the opposition, then battle with things on our own island.

“Only we can rectify that by performances and results, but that’s the desire. That’s what I set out to do at the start. We wanted to bring people together. We recognised that was a failing and part of the reason we hadn’t succeeded for so long.

“We don’t want the team to be in that type of environment as a group of staff because it is much harder to succeed.”


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5 German Players Who Could Cause Problems For England:

Thomas Muller

Former World Cup Golden Boot Winner.

Leroy Sane

Premier League experience will count in this contest.

Timo Werner
Yet to reach his peak, remains a danger to England.

Ilkay Gundogan

Key midfielder - poses a big threat if we give him time and space.

Jamal Musiala
Chose Germany over England.
Hes got talent and no fear


I'm a member of Block109 an England supporters group.. apparently the Green Man was just rushed by German fans in Balaclavas and using knuckle dusters... someone broke their leg and lots of trouble! Grim


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It’s Mastermind, Only Connect and University Challenge followed by an early night for me . Not going to watch England till Southgate has gone. Dire, turgid pointless football. His arrogance in showing he is superior to everyone else by leaving TAA out of the match day squad because pundits dared to challenge him. His dumb loyalty to players like McGuire and Stirling despite the terrible performances of late. Ignoring players like Tomori having a great season in Italy but not good enough to play against the players he actually knows and lines up against. Eric Dier? I would never want my club or country to lose a match but his team selection is worrying. Enjoy the game


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David Nugent


Joey Barton


Brian Little


Jeff Blockley

Steve Guppy


Dean Ashton

Michael Ricketts

Ryan Shawcross