What a sorry, sorry state our club is in

I tell you what I want- a club run professionally, by a professional back up and senior management team. A club where players can be motivated to over achieve.

Critical? Damn right. We have clubs a lot smaller in the division that are run far better than we are.

The criticism IS aimed at the top - that’s where the main blame rests. And has done for many years.

A few on here feel uncomfortable criticising Gibbo and citing past achievements. And I get that- but those days are a long, long way behind us.
 
I tell you what I want- a club run professionally, by a professional back up and senior management team. A club where players can be motivated to over achieve.

Critical? Damn right. We have clubs a lot smaller in the division that are run far better than we are.

The criticism IS aimed at the top - that’s where the main blame rests. And has done for many years.

A few on here feel uncomfortable criticising Gibbo and citing past achievements. And I get that- but those days are a long, long way behind us.
Exactly this, so many clubs have overtaken us over the last 10 years. Southampton, Norwich, Brentford, Burnley, Bournemouth, Palace, Fulham, Leeds, Brighton, Wolves, Forest, Watford just to name a few, most of them are historically smaller clubs too. This isn’t by accident, we have gone backwards significantly in recent years mainly down to Gibson but some fans just refuse to acknowledge this
 
One of those strikers at most would start in a top 6 side and possibly one midfielder at a push. We are far from alright
So, we’re starting with a top six striker at least. Forrs was fancied by Brentford in the prem, Hoppe in La Liga and Akpom was giving it big licks the start of the season. Fully fit Watmore is top six.

As I’ve said before that midfield finished 7th last season.. we’re alright.
 
Exactly this, so many clubs have overtaken us over the last 10 years. Southampton, Norwich, Brentford, Burnley, Bournemouth, Palace, Fulham, Leeds, Brighton, Wolves, Forest, Watford just to name a few, most of them are historically smaller clubs too. This isn’t by accident, we have gone backwards significantly in recent years mainly down to Gibson but some fans just refuse to acknowledge this
It doesn’t always work out! For every success story there are countless pubs that go to the wall or drop down the pyramid. We overachieve.
 
So, we’re starting with a top six striker at least. Forrs was fancied by Brentford in the prem, Hoppe in La Liga and Akpom was giving it big licks the start of the season. Fully fit Watmore is top six.

As I’ve said before that midfield finished 7th last season.. we’re alright.
Munez is the best one of the lot and he isn’t even our player
Forss wasn’t fancied in the premier league, he played 7 games mainly off the bench and they sold him for a tiny amount
Hoppe played a grand total of 5 la liga games. Both good strikers but definitely development players
We spend the summer trying to shift Akpom, look at his goals everywhere he has been, he won’t be good enough for us long term
Watmore definitely isn’t top 6 and you can’t rely on him staying fit for a decent amount of time

The midfield that got us top 7 included Tav, he was by far the best player in this side, without him that midfield is shocking as we are seeing in almost every game

This isn’t a top 6 squad, far from it
 
It doesn’t always work out! For every success story there are countless pubs that go to the wall or drop down the pyramid. We overachieve.
Currently being in the championship relegation zone isn’t overachieving. I would take a guess that most of those clubs were promoted by spending less than we did in the last decade
 
So, we’re starting with a top six striker at least. Forrs was fancied by Brentford in the prem, Hoppe in La Liga and Akpom was giving it big licks the start of the season. Fully fit Watmore is top six.

As I’ve said before that midfield finished 7th last season.. we’re alright.
Newy, this the same midfield ( minus Tav) that’s got us 3rd from bottom? Far from being alright
 
You have very anti Gibson feelings and of course that’s fair enough. You have been very consistent about that over the years from reading your posts.

Just curious to know. Have you ever met him personally to feel this way? I sense you must have done and didn’t like what you saw. That’s not surprising. He can be a very ruthless individual with people who cross him. You definitely come across as somebody who has had personal experience with the man.

I recall what somebody told me in MSS years ago who, accidentally mind, happened to cross him. I don’t want to repeat the details but they were best intentions. He was summarily hauled across an open fire with a sharp response. Gibson is very passionate that there is no doubt. He’s has also proved to be fiercely loyal at times ( a strength in some respects and a weakness in others) and he has been politically Ill advised on other occasions. He has proved to be an excellent businessman and a talisman football chairman Do I trust his judgement? No I’m not sure I do, but do I trust him as a person of honour? Yes I think so.
Yes I have spoken to Steve Gibson on a number of occasions. Most have been for a relatively short time in relatively public settings, but I have spoken to him personally and privately on one extended conversation lasting nearer two hours than one.
I have spoken with wealthier and certainly more powerful people in my career, not that I'm anybody of importance myself.
In my experience and to my knowledge Steve is a bully who tries to steam roller. Inside the club he can do that. One to one and for a long time, I personally found him hugely underwhelming.

I will always try to be fair and balanced.
Nobody needs to tell me about the leadership, ambition, vision, passion, courage and energy Gibson brought to MFC from 1993. We have so much to be thankful for that.
Nobody needs to tell me that without his conversion of £64m debt into equity in 2012-16, then Middlesbrough would have gone into administration after the Global Financial crisis snuffed out access to external finance.

As a man there are a number of reasons why I do not respect Steve Gibson and wish our club was not in his control. I don't respect people who use position to intimidate, stifle and suppress.
I'd prefer either a rich benefactor who actually injected money in, or brilliant leadership that delivered our potential through being outstanding football professionals. Ideally both.
At the moment we have neither.
We have an arrogant bully who has no intention of actually investing, or letting somebody much more capable take control.
But whatever, nobody can tell me that a man who has had absolute control since 1993, has made all the big calls around people and strategy, is not ultimately responsible for the remarkable decline of the club from a football and financial perspective since 2006.

I appreciate that many simply will not countenance criticism of Gibson, but that is just not healthy.
I appreciate that most have not had first hand experience of Gibson.
I appreciate that many will think I'm just making things up, or am bitter and twisted about something.
Let me be clear, I'm not, even remotely. Gibson could never have impacted me, and in any case I'm very grateful for what I have and the position I am in.

I honestly believed - and posted through the summer - that Gibson seemed to have his mojo back. We were FFP secure, had reduced the wage bill, cleared the dead wood, increased revenue and had a financial windfall to help partially bridge the gap to Parachute Payment clubs.
It has been a wasted opportunity, not as bad as 2016, but a huge waste nonetheless.
 
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Munez is the best one of the lot and he isn’t even our player
Forss wasn’t fancied in the premier league, he played 7 games mainly off the bench and they sold him for a tiny amount
Hoppe played a grand total of 5 la liga games. Both good strikers but definitely development players
We spend the summer trying to shift Akpom, look at his goals everywhere he has been, he won’t be good enough for us long term
Watmore definitely isn’t top 6 and you can’t rely on him staying fit for a decent amount of time

The midfield that got us top 7 included Tav, he was by far the best player in this side, without him that midfield is shocking as we are seeing in almost every game

This isn’t a top 6 squad, far from it
It’s not a bottom 3 squad
 
So, we’re starting with a top six striker at least. Forrs was fancied by Brentford in the prem, Hoppe in La Liga and Akpom was giving it big licks the start of the season. Fully fit Watmore is top six.

As I’ve said before that midfield finished 7th last season.. we’re alright.
You are another who has pirouetted rather gracefully.
Your endless lists at the end of the window highlighted how short we were.

"That midfield" didn't finish 7th.
Brentford didn't fancy Forss in the PL, they sold him to us cheaply.
Hoppe was not played in La Liga and never scored, shipped out at first chance.

We were 5th on New Years Eve, 7th at season end and are now 22nd after two really poor windows.
A half decent core is not performing and has not been strengthened.

It is collective responsibility for that. Of course Wilder deserves criticism, but not Scott? not King "Stevie"?
But we are far from alright newy.
 
Currently being in the championship relegation zone isn’t overachieving. I would take a guess that most of those clubs were promoted by spending less than we did in the last decade
The time we dropped £50m cost us massively. Overall, we overachieve.
 
It seems that the different directions of pull that Warnock alluded to have not been resolved under Wilder, the club knocking back signings Wilder identified and Wilder refusing to play players bought by Scott and the recruitment team, for me Warnock and Wilder have achieved more in the game than Scott but it seems that Scott is the side Gibson is backing, especially if we go with Edwards based on his relationship with Scott.

It's a gamble and if it doesn't pull off then we are in danger of having to recut our cloth and rein in our ambitions, the promise of square pegs in square holes has not materialised, the impression we've improved personnel at both ends of the field is not backed up by the stats, in fact on XG we're missing more easy chances and conceding more preventable goals, the midfield suffering from ennui and the energy and press that was evident in Wilder's early games completely gone, it wasn't only Tav that was providing that so whilst selling him has weakened the team it should not of altered the strategy, especially out of possession.

Much is made of Wilder's tactical inflexibility but I'm of the opposite view that the players were unable to execute the plans that Wilderball gave them, in defence especially we never seemed to work as a cohesive unit, one dropping as two pushed, both full backs pushing on and centre halves been pulled out of position into midfield to create space in the channels.

Firstly, we need a cogent transfer and recruitment system, whether that be Scott purchases and the new man coaches or whether that is done by committee but only players fully agreed by all parties should be purchased.

Secondly, we need a system and pattern of play that maximises the talent we currently have and sets a foundation that in time evolves as we recruit to suit, a footballing DNA if you like, one that we can understand and see progress without knee-jerk reactions when we hit the inevitable bumps in the road.

Thirdly, we need to move away from track record managers and invest in potential rather than proof, identify up and coming managers, coaches who are looking to move into management and ex-players who have the right personalities to execute the plan set out above.

It feels very much crossroads time and a defining point in an era, will Gibson's legacy be Icarusian, a bright start that collapsed as we flew too close to the sun, or Daedalusian, where the early glory days are followed by a long stable retirement, the next appointment will very much determine the direction we go as a club.
I agree to an extent, but Scott is also disposable. If there is little evidence of success following multiple managerial appointments and player recruitment we can simply hire another DoF.

It's far from ideal but whoever you put in that role must have the trust (and freedom) to do their job. It's also a long term appointment in my view, think 5-7 years.

The footballing DNA point is interesting - I'm not convinced much analysis of the existing squad has gone into our plans but surely that has to be the starting point? Maximise the assets at your disposal before strengthening? I have a fear we've done it the other way round - Scott has come in with ideas on how football "should be played" without considering the playing squad in place, I might be wrong.

I'm pretty sure that point 3 is already in place with a managerial long list for future appointments, although as usual it's hindered by only appointing managers currently out of work.
 
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