What the British Public has noticed re consequences of Brexit

[Lefty]

The EU has created a large free trade bubble where none existed before, yet it is protectionist? Has it not eliminated red tape between countries that existed previously?

It has, plus it has significantly more international trade deals with other nations than anyone else.

Minimum standards must be met, which can sometimes be used by the EU as a de facto exclusion device, but by and large the standards are those desired by consumers and workers within the Single Market.

What we are now seeing is a lowering of standards in the UK, such as the lengthening of shifts for HGV drivers and the lowering of the licence requirements for the role. This will have a knock on when the EU decide that our drivers are too dangerous for their roads.

There is good red tape and bad red tape. The EU's red tape around the countries external to the Single Market is significant, usually for good reason, but it removes vast amounts of red tape for those within it.

Another example of good red tape is the environmental ones for our beaches. Our beaches used to be disgusting. Complying with EU directives on dumping waste saw our rivers and beaches improve to excellent. I notice the dumping has begun again and it won't be long before they are back to disgusting levels.

This was why the Conservatives were desperate to leave the CJEU as they were held to account far more effectively than our tribal, myopic, complacent and apathetic voters every 5 years.

 

[Redwurzel]

Our home is burning down around us and we are arguing about whose fault it is.
The flames are starting to hurt now.
Some stranger in her 20's just knocked on my door begging for food.
Working people are now needing to go to food banks because wages are so low.
Energy companies are going bust.
Benefits are getting cut.
Supermarkets are saying we could run out of stuff soon.
Does it matter who caused it?
We just need to put the fire out.

These are mainly long term issues that were running before the UK left the EU in Jan 2020. I agree they all matter.

We have growing wealth and income inequality and its been happening since the 1980s. Wages have not kept pace with inflation for most in low income jobs. Taxes have increased on the poor, but not on the rich.

It does matter was caused them because it helps address the issues required to solve them. Some of the cuts in welfare have been criminal. I have reported on them on here, quite a few on here I can tell don't see that world. Its not a criticism just an observation and its the same for a lot of the population. Some on here though do, they directly help those who are struggling.

I felt rightly or wrongly that the system in 2016 was not on balance working for areas of the country like the North East of England and something more radical was needed that we had had from the previous 37 years. Decling employment opportunities and future aspirations can be deadly and lead to many other problems like drug, alcohol, gambling then crime. Those of us lucky enough to have benfitted from decent education qualifications and a career need to raise expectations. self belief of others and where we can improve opportunities. At the same time protect those that need help get it like sick, elderly, young children.

I have not voted for my local Conservative MP (and never UKIP) at the last three general elections, despite that he gets around 55% of the vote, in an area that is not wealthy.

 

[Redwurzel]

The EU has created a large free trade bubble where none existed before, yet it is protectionist? Has it not eliminated red tape between countries that existed previously?

So why are there so many problems for British food producers in GB shipping goods into Northern Ireland?

A poster on here said it was virtually impossible for him/her to sell LPs to customers in the EU?

M&S is closing its food stores in France because it is so difficult to ship UK produced perishable food into France in what is supposed to be a free trade zone.

This is the real world experience not the theory.

Some countries are notorius for their non tariff barriers. When I was at Philips we could not ship UK made kettles to most European countries. We did not have the right DIN standard even though we were the largest electronics company on Europe and a Dutch company. If people believe there are never significant barriers they are living in cloud cookoo land.

I can post links if posters don't believe me.

 

[Lefty]

So why are there so many problems for British food producers in GB shipping goods into Northern Ireland?

A poster on here said it was virtually impossible for him/her to sell LPs to customers in the EU?

M&S is closing its food stores in France because it is so difficult to ship UK produced perishable food into France in what is supposed to be a free trade zone.

This is the real world experience not the theory.

Some countries are notorius for their non tariff barriers. When I was at Philips we could not ship UK made kettles to most European countries. We did not have the right DIN standard even though we were the largest electronics company on Europe and a Dutch company. If people believe there are never significant barriers they are living in cloud cookoo land.

I can post links if posters don't believe me.

Er, we voted to plonk ourselves outside the Single Market.

 

[bear66]

So why are there so many problems for British food producers in GB shipping goods into Northern Ireland?

A poster on here said it was virtually impossible for him/her to sell LPs to customers in the EU?

M&S is closing its food stores in France because it is so difficult to ship UK produced perishable food into France in what is supposed to be a free trade zone.

This is the real world experience not the theory.

Some countries are notorius for their non tariff barriers. When I was at Philips we could not ship UK made kettles to most European countries. We did not have the right DIN standard even though we were the largest electronics company on Europe and a Dutch company. If people believe there are never significant barriers they are living in cloud cookoo land.

I can post links if posters don't believe me.

GB isn't part of the EU. We are now seeing the real world and not the lies theory.

 

[Lefty]

'When I was at Philips we could not ship UK made kettles to most European countries.'

When was that and which countries?

 

[Redwurzel]

Lefty

What we are now seeing is a lowering of standards in the UK, such as the lengthening of shifts for HGV drivers and the lowering of the licence requirements for the role. This will have a knock on when the EU decide that our drivers are too dangerous for their roads.

I am sure you know this example is temporary.

How do you explain Scottish Shell fish been stopped? - its the best quality in Europe.

Ask UK farmers about animal welfare in some EU countries. Or imported horse meat from Poland?

 

[Redwurzel]

GB isn't part of the EU. We are now seeing the real world and not the lies theory.

I know GB is not EU, but NI is the UK but Single Market hence GB food is getting blocked from entering NI.

Please watch the news stories..

The real world is that perfectly good food is getting blocked or is that a lie?

 

[NYboro]

How do you explain Scottish Shell fish been stopped? - its the best quality in Europe.

"We" voted for it by leaving the EU.

 

[bear66]

Lefty

What we are now seeing is a lowering of standards in the UK, such as the lengthening of shifts for HGV drivers and the lowering of the licence requirements for the role. This will have a knock on when the EU decide that our drivers are too dangerous for their roads.

I am sure you know this example is temporary.

How do you explain Scottish Shell fish been stopped? - its the best quality in Europe.

Ask UK farmers about animal welfare in some EU countries. Or imported horse meat from Poland?

Easy to explain. We're not part of the EU.

We've seen the UK animal welfare exposes for chicken rearing. We're now doing deals with countries with poorer standards than the UK.

The difficulty in exporting shellfish is only teething problems. (So the government have told us.)

I know GB is not EU, but NI is the UK but Single Market hence GB food is getting blocked from entering NI.

Please watch the news stories..

The real world is that perfectly good food is getting blocked or is that a lie?

And rightly so. We signed an agreement so that could happen.

 

[NYboro]

I know GB is not EU, but NI is the UK but Single Market hence GB food is getting blocked from entering NI.

Please watch the news stories..

The real world is that perfectly good food is getting blocked or is that a lie?

You are confused. Johnson agreed a deal where NI is treated as partially being in the EU to allow a free flow of goods between mainland Europe and Ireland.

 

[ThePrisoner]

So why are there so many problems for British food producers in GB shipping goods into Northern Ireland?

A poster on here said it was virtually impossible for him/her to sell LPs to customers in the EU?

M&S is closing its food stores in France because it is so difficult to ship UK produced perishable food into France in what is supposed to be a free trade zone.

Holy mother of god. Are you serious? Are you actually serious?

 

[Lefty]

Lefty

What we are now seeing is a lowering of standards in the UK, such as the lengthening of shifts for HGV drivers and the lowering of the licence requirements for the role. This will have a knock on when the EU decide that our drivers are too dangerous for their roads.

I am sure you know this example is temporary.

How do you explain Scottish Shell fish been stopped? - its the best quality in Europe.

Ask UK farmers about animal welfare in some EU countries. Or imported horse meat from Poland?

It is temporary until there is a better, long term solution. What will that be and when?

'How do you explain Scottish Shell fish been stopped? - its the best quality in Europe.'

I explain that by pointing out we chose to leave the Single Market and impose on ourselves the third country status rules we helped to write.

We could have avoided this by remaining in the EU, leaving the EU but remaining fully in the Single Market, or by applying to join EFTA and remaining in the Single Market but outside CAP and CFP, or by negotiating a good, well thought out, detailed post Brexit trading relationship before we left.

Instead we voted for the utterly inadequate 'oven ready' deal that those who signed off on it without scrutiny, read afterwards and realised, as experts had warned, was dreadful. The knock on from that was we then tried to pass legislation that would allow us to unilaterally break international law by ignoring or reneging on it. This has led to a lack of trust in our competence, which helps the countries we are looking for new trade deals with on the one hand, because they can sneak through a more advantageous one than they expected - see Australia - but it makes it harder for them because we don't know what we are doing and in any case we have eroded our good reputation for trustworthiness. Hence the US ain't that interested.

'Ask UK farmers about animal welfare in some EU countries. Or imported horse meat from Poland?'

The minimum standards in the EU are still better than the minimum standards in Australia or the US.

 

[Redwurzel]

'When I was at Philips we could not ship UK made kettles to most European countries.'

When was that and which countries?

Late 1980s and as said most Western European countries (i.e more than 50%) the vast majority were in the EEC.

DIN standards were driven by Germany.

It was possible to get approval to DIN standards, but it was very hard work. Remember these were kettles tested for many years in the UK/ROI.

Strangely kettles were not common in most parts of the EU, because they didn't drink much tea or instant coffee. Consumers would often boil water in pans if they made tea or instant coffee!

 

[r00fie1]

Lorry driver crisis won’t be eased in time to avoid Christmas chaos, officials concede

Ministers scramble to deal with shortfall of 90,000 drivers, but insiders claim it is too late to solve problem before festive period

www.telegraph.co.uk

Lorry driver crisis won’t be eased in time to avoid Christmas chaos, officials concede​

Ministers are scrambling to deal with a shortfall of 90,000 drivers but Whitehall insiders claim it is too late to resolve before Christmas
[ie: they know whats coming.....]

Ministers have doubled the number of testing slots for new hauliers and extended lorry driver hours Credit: Chris Ratcliffe/Bloomberg

Government officials have privately conceded that the lorry driver crisis will not be resolved in time to prevent disruption at Christmas, The Telegraph has been told.

Ministers are scrambling to address widespread supply chain problems for retailers, supermarkets and restaurants, which are being fuelled by a shortfall of 90,000 HGV drivers.

In recent weeks, they have moved to address the situation by doubling the number of testing slots for new hauliers and extending lorry driver hours.

A new ministerial group chaired by Stephen Barclay, the Cabinet Office minister, is also monitoring the problems amid fears the disruption could lead to restriction of choice at supermarkets and restaurants in the run-up to Christmas.

However, senior Whitehall insiders have claimed the departments involved have concluded that they are too late to fully resolve the problems before the festive period.

It is understood that, in recent meetings, officials warned that even if they "pull every single policy lever" available, the benefit will not be fully realised until the New Year. Instead, the measures are seen primarily as a way of addressing long-term problems with HGV driver shortages and supply chains.

"The amount of mitigations that can be done for Christmas are minimal," a source added.

Several industry leaders, who have warned of chaos in the run-up to Christmas, told The Telegraph they shared that assessment.

With concern growing over the impact, it is also understood that there remains a "live discussion" about placing lorry drivers on the immigration shortage occupation list.

This would allow British firms to recruit European lorry drivers more easily through the fast-track visa route, with the policy option said to be one of several highlighted in official papers presented at recent cross-Whitehall meetings.

Doing so would represent a major U-turn, with ministers so far insisting companies must begin to recruit more British drivers rather than looking to cheap foreign labour from abroad.

On Wednesday night, Cabinet Office sources insisted no decision had been taken, pointing out that Mr Barclay had only just replaced Michael Gove as Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. However, they added that he was determined to "find a resolution" and considered it one of his top priorities.

It came as Minette Batters, the head of the National Farmers Union, wrote to Boris Johnson warning that, without urgent action, shelves would "go empty and consumers will panic buy to try and get through the winter".

In the letter, signed by 12 food and drink trade associations, Ms Batters reiterated widespread calls from industry leaders for the Government to introduce an emergency "Covid recovery visa" which would enable them to recruit staff from abroad to fill vacancies.

"The supply chain will be critically damaged beyond recovery if it cannot overcome the immediate crisis," the letter said. "We must have an urgent commitment from you to enable the industry to recruit from outside the UK over the next 12 months to get us through the winter and to help us save Christmas."

Echoing her concerns, Ian Wright, the chief executive of the Food and Drink Federation, told The Telegraph: "My position since the early summer is that just-in-time supply chains are eroding.

"That doesn't mean there's going to be a winter of discontent, but it does mean that some of the things that we thought were immutable – that everything would get to the supermarket and restaurant on time, in all areas – will not be from now on."

Duncan Buchanan, the policy director of the Road Haulage Association, said: "We've been banging on about this for a long time now. The pace of Government and the pace of institutional thinking has not been sufficient to deal with the immediate problems.

"The measures that are being taken are too slow to deal with the issues. To affect the Christmas period it should have been done before now."
Mr Buchanan added that the only policy option he believed could make a "decent contribution" to addressing supply chain problems before Christmas would be to temporarily suspend the requirement for lorry drivers to complete a series of refresher courses needed to maintain their certificate of professional competence.

These are required to be taken every five years and are often grouped together, meaning drivers are required to come off the road for a week.

Mr Buchanan said the requirement was "resented" by experienced drivers, adding that many drivers had retired early rather than be forced to "sit in a classroom for five days and be bored to death because of inferior training".

"It's right we do this for road safety – but we are in a crisis," he added. "It would require legislation, but no one is willing to do it."

Speaking to MPs on Wednesday, Grant Shapps, the Transport Secretary, said the HGV crisis was improving "week by week". Appearing before the Commons transport committee, he said: "This is absolutely global. But we've had an additional systematic issue in this country for a very long time.

"We've continually allowed our domestic market to underperform by simply having wages undercut by people coming in prepared to do the job for less and in pretty bad conditions sometimes. That's the wider picture we're determined to resolve.

"We've seen a very welcome rise in salaries. I think this will provide incentive for people to come into this market."

 

[Redwurzel]

Lefty thanks for your reply which make some valid points on using EFTA, but you haven't really answered my questions but in general skirted round them.

I don't defend the way BREXIT has been managed and yes mistrust has been developed by all.

I also agree if we stayed in the EU there would not be an issue, but I was replying to the point that my experience is the EU/EEC has always had a protectionist outlook, particularly when EU producers face direct competition from outside the EU/EEC and also replying to the point by others who said that barriers were placed by the EU because standards were always higher in the EU than outside.

So why is Scottish shellfish effectively blocked if the EU is all for free trade? Everybody knows it the same product as was previously allowed without any restrictions and the high quality of Scottish shell fish is renowned throughout Europe. It looks to a lot of people the Scottish producers are getting punished and taught a lesson for leaving the Club.

If the EU has higher standards with food than the UK why were we eating horse meat from Poland from an ROI business, labelled up as EU Meat from Tesco stores?

Ref animal welfare standards - I was asking about animal welfare in the EU v. animal welfare in the UK, not Australia or the USA. Do you honestly believe welfare standards are lower in the UK than in the EU?

Ref Beach quality - I agree the EU/EEC has helped raise standards, but disagree our beaches will now go back to what they were like in the 1970s and 1980s. The way we manage sewage (a big problem to beach quality) has changed for many reasons not just EU legislation. Ref sewage standards - If anyone goes to the Greece Islands (part of EU) they are still using a lot of narrow sewage pipes which can't deal with toilet paper etc showing there are variable low standards.

General observation - Too many people think black and white - EU good - UK now, bad. Its not. Neither the opposite.

As I have written previously working class people in the UK have struggled in general in the last 40 years (particularly in what is called the left behind regions), something radical had to change (and it didn't really happen in the Blair years just the struggle was a bit less). Anyone on here disagree with this?

Many people in Scotland have seen this for the last 25 years - hence the massive rise of the SNP and their agenda of radical change and full independence. I do think quite major change will happen in many parts of England too and very slowly working peole are starting to realise something is not right. One early example of unexpected change is UK Job vacancies in August at unseen levels. (Please can posters not say this is a lie without doing independent research first, to back up what they write).

My guess is that wages will at long last rise (above inflation) in lower paid jobs too, but that will take a bit longer to show in the official stats. Another guess of mine is that unemployment levels will drop too (below pre Covid levels) as people retrain for some of the vacancies and the number of people working will rise to record levels.

There you are, I have put my head on the block with a few predictions which can be knocked off in the future. I do hope the UK becomes more competitive and maintains increasing trade with all countries of the World. Our increasing prosperity in the Victorian/Edwardian age was built on promoting free global trade and having a competitive edge.

 

[Redwurzel]

Roofie

This a thread about BREXIT changes.

Are you saying or you believe the 90,000 driver shortages are predominately due to Brexit?

 

[SmallTown]

So why are there so many problems for British food producers in GB shipping goods into Northern Ireland?

A poster on here said it was virtually impossible for him/her to sell LPs to customers in the EU?

M&S is closing its food stores in France because it is so difficult to ship UK produced perishable food into France in what is supposed to be a free trade zone.

This is the real world experience not the theory.

Some countries are notorius for their non tariff barriers. When I was at Philips we could not ship UK made kettles to most European countries. We did not have the right DIN standard even though we were the largest electronics company on Europe and a Dutch company. If people believe there are never significant barriers they are living in cloud cookoo land.

I can post links if posters don't believe me.

Because we voted to leave the EU and decided to do it without a trade deal

Blaming the EU for something we did as a nation is probably the worst trait of the brexitist

 

[SmallTown]

My guess is that wages will at long last rise (above inflation) in lower paid jobs too, but that will take a bit longer to show in the official stats. Another guess of mine is that unemployment levels will drop too (below pre Covid levels) as people retrain for some of the vacancies and the number of people working will rise to record levels.

There you are, I have put my head on the block with a few predictions which can be knocked off in the future. I do hope the UK becomes more competitive and maintains increasing trade with all countries of the World. Our increasing prosperity in the Victorian/Edwardian age was built on promoting free global trade and having a competitive edge.

How do you expect this to happen? I'm really curious. Because we are currently isolating ourselves from our main trading partners and as President Biden said the other day, will struggle to get the trade deals we want with other major economies. Everything on your wishlist of things that might happen is harder now than it was 5 years ago. That's the bit I'm struggling with, you are saying things that are getting more difficult are going to happen

 

[Ziggy]

This a thread about BREXIT changes.

Did you bother to read the ‘ Preparedness for leaving the European Union’ without a deal document that was available on the EU website from almost immediately after the vote to leave. Covered all sectors of trade, travel, media tech. Everything you can think of. It was startling to realise just exactly how integrated we had become. Also when they began, the results of negotiations, which the is required by EU law.
This was updated continuously, all that’s happening now was there in black and white.

I did post links to it several times on the board