Who was best, Viduka, Boksic or Ravanelli?

Boksic had one outstanding season at Marseilles on leaving the weaker Yugoslav league where he wasn't exactly prolific, (1 in 3).
The rest of his career he played little and scored at a low rate.
His time in Italy is massively over-rated.
He did win two Italian titles, but scored just 7 league goals in 41 appearances across those two league winning seasons with the two clubs.
He was actually a relatively poor finisher and criticised a lot for this in Italy.
Of course he had major talent, but he was lazy and mostly interested in how cool he could make himself appear.
He actually turned out more regularly for Boro (and scored at a better rate) than he did for Lazio or Juventus.
He was the scorer of some outstanding goals, but never an outstanding goalscorer after Marseilles.
There is more than a touch of myth around this fella.
 
Too close to call as they all had good attributes, that said, when you think we all had the privilege of watching these guys perform, words can't describe !!!
 
Frozen Horse said:
We started that season really well, but picked up too many points when we should have had 3. This one sticks in the memory, as does a late draw at QPR.
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Another what might have been season, we looked as though we would probably be ok until Christmas and then as is often the case we had a disastrous slump when we lost to all our relegation rivals (Forest, Oldham, Palace and Sheffield Utd)
 
indeedido said:
The rest of his career he played little and scored at a low rate.
His time in Italy is massively over-rated.
He did win two Italian titles, but scored just 7 league goals in 41 appearances across those two league winning seasons with the two clubs.
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There are elements of truth, but I think his italian career was good. Not sure about your '7 goals' that's a little myopic. He scored 31 Serie A goals in 115 games, and he was creative for others in a league that was reknowned for being claustrophobically stifling for forwards.

I do agree with the lazy tag, I don't think he was ever a fully dedicated professional. In an FA four corner model he would be massively unbalanced. His technical and tactical would be off the charts, his physical would be very good as he was quick and strong. But Psychological, he didn't always fancy the challenge, work hard at winning, and socially he would be poor as a reknowned sulkyhead that didn't get on with team mates. I suspect he has barely thought about Boro since leaving.
 
BoroMart said:
There are elements of truth, but I think his italian career was good. Not sure about your '7 goals' that's a little myopic. He scored 31 Serie A goals in 115 games, and he was creative for others in a league that was reknowned for being claustrophobically stifling for forwards.

I do agree with the lazy tag, I don't think he was ever a fully dedicated professional. In an FA four corner model he would be massively unbalanced. His technical and tactical would be off the charts, his physical would be very good as he was quick and strong. But Psychological, he didn't always fancy the challenge, work hard at winning, and socially he would be poor as a reknowned sulkyhead that didn't get on with team mates. I suspect he has barely thought about Boro since leaving.
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It's not myopic. He won the league in Italy twice, but in those two league winning seasons he scored 7 goals and played just 41 times.
He scored 31 goals in 115 league matches across 7 seasons.
He didn't play a lot and he didn't score many.
 
Ravanelli - a lot of our fans used to overrate him, he was a 'big name' and certainly better than anything we'd had at the time, but it was a time when Serie A was superior and any player joining from there was revered. He had a few caps for Italy, mostly off the bench, and wasn't even Juventus' best striker when we signed him, in and out of their side depending on formation. He was often behind Vialli and Del Piero in the pecking order, for Italy too.

His goalscoring record at the Riverside, in the league, was good, and abysmal elsewhere. And, as noted, he scored a hatful in the cups that put him towards the top of the Ceefax 'top scorer' charts despite being nowhere near the top scorer in the league. He was a great finisher from <12 yards out with his left boot, and occasionally further out, but more often closer in. He was as good with his right as I am with mine. The worst thing about him was arrogance. Its true he was used to playing for a more professional outfit, but his arrogance was very UNprofessional. I cringe when I see him volunteer to be our manager as though we'd be desperate to have him back in any capacity - er no thanks.

Boksic - great player for us but clearly an absolute @r$ehole. Was never great at Juventus or Lazio, but when we were first linked with him any player from those clubs would have got the fans excited. I don't even think he was a shoo-in starter for either club across a whole season. In and out at a time when clubs didn't really have squad rotation. We eventually signed him after his stock (and Serie A's stock) had fallen significantly and although he turned out to be fantastic on occasion (possibly better than he ever was in Italy but not France), he simply didn't play enough. Not much more to say about him.

Viduka - up and down to begin with and then sublime in his last two seasons. Also fantastic for Leeds when they were good and could have been good enough for Ferguson etc. The best striker we've ever had by a country mile (in my lifetime). I never forgave him for going to Newcastle and hated him for a while after. Had he stayed here (or even just gone anywhere but there) and avoided injury he honestly would have been as revered as Juninho and we wouldn't have gone down. He was on his way to being THAT loved by the time his contract expired. Instead, we got Mido and the club has never been the same since.

JFH - absolutely quality throughout his whole time in England, but appeared a little lazy at times for us, he was getting on a bit. He was overall a great signing but probably joined us at the right time and moved on at the right time. Every bit as good as the 3 above across his career.

Yakubu - Consistently inconsistent. Never quite enough for 20 a season but could always bank on him for double figures. Almost like a Premier League version of Britt, but better all round even in relative terms. On his day he was unplayable, but it was never more than once a month and if he was in the mood.

Ricard - confidence player. Terrible to begin with, brilliant for 18 months once we were up, then terrible for his last season or so. Almost laughably bad at times.
 
atypical_boro said:
Ravanelli - a lot of our fans used to overrate him, he was a 'big name' and certainly better than anything we'd had at the time, but it was a time when Serie A was superior and any player joining from there was revered. He had a few caps for Italy, mostly off the bench, and wasn't even Juventus' best striker when we signed him, in and out of their side depending on formation. He was often behind Vialli and Del Piero in the pecking order, for Italy too.

His goalscoring record at the Riverside, in the league, was good, and abysmal elsewhere. And, as noted, he scored a hatful in the cups that put him towards the top of the Ceefax 'top scorer' charts despite being nowhere near the top scorer in the league. He was a great finisher from <12 yards out with his left boot, and occasionally further out, but more often closer in. He was as good with his right as I am with mine. The worst thing about him was arrogance. Its true he was used to playing for a more professional outfit, but his arrogance was very UNprofessional. I cringe when I see him volunteer to be our manager as though we'd be desperate to have him back in any capacity - er no thanks.

Boksic - great player for us but clearly an absolute @r$ehole. Was never great at Juventus or Lazio, but when we were first linked with him any player from those clubs would have got the fans excited. I don't even think he was a shoo-in starter for either club across a whole season. In and out at a time when clubs didn't really have squad rotation. We eventually signed him after his stock (and Serie A's stock) had fallen significantly and although he turned out to be fantastic on occasion (possibly better than he ever was in Italy but not France), he simply didn't play enough. Not much more to say about him.

Viduka - up and down to begin with and then sublime in his last two seasons. Also fantastic for Leeds when they were good and could have been good enough for Ferguson etc. The best striker we've ever had by a country mile (in my lifetime). I never forgave him for going to Newcastle and hated him for a while after. Had he stayed here (or even just gone anywhere but there) and avoided injury he honestly would have been as revered as Juninho and we wouldn't have gone down. He was on his way to being THAT loved by the time his contract expired. Instead, we got Mido and the club has never been the same since.

JFH - absolutely quality throughout his whole time in England, but appeared a little lazy at times for us, he was getting on a bit. He was overall a great signing but probably joined us at the right time and moved on at the right time. Every bit as good as the 3 above across his career.

Yakubu - Consistently inconsistent. Never quite enough for 20 a season but could always bank on him for double figures. Almost like a Premier League version of Britt, but better all round even in relative terms. On his day he was unplayable, but it was never more than once a month and if he was in the mood.

Ricard - confidence player. Terrible to begin with, brilliant for 18 months once we were up, then terrible for his last season or so. Almost laughably bad at times.
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Bit harsh on Yakubu in my opinion. Also, he's the only penalty taker we've ever had who made me feel confident we'd score.

Pretty much agree with all the rest.
 
Last of the stats ...

JFH

34 goals (17 home 17 away)
23 lge 11 cup
5 free kicks just 1 pen

Yak

35 goals (24 home 11 away)
25 lge 10 cup
11 pens (didnt he also miss 1 against bristol city in the cup where he just about passed it to their keeper?)

I think wiki only displays number of league appearances and goals?
 
indeedido said:
It's not myopic. He won the league in Italy twice, but in those two league winning seasons he scored 7 goals and played just 41 times.
He scored 31 goals in 115 league matches across 7 seasons.
He didn't play a lot and he didn't score many.
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It's myopic that you are honing in on two of his 7 seasons His career is long over, we can look at it in entirety.

He scored in about 3.7 games, he should have had more with his talent, but he was always a creative player for others as well as himself.

I agree he didn't play enough, partly fitness, partly blowing hot and cold, partly attitude.
 
JaenBoro said:
Bit harsh on Yakubu in my opinion. Also, he's the only penalty taker we've ever had who made me feel confident we'd score.

Pretty much agree with all the rest.
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Fair enough. What would you say was harsh about Yak though? Think the most he scored in the league was 13 for us. Good but not amazing.

I felt as confident about Leadbitter from the spot, lower level though.

Yak was the best player we've ever had in our history at getting the ball in the corner and winning throw-in after throw-in when running the clock down in injury time.
 
atypical_boro said:
Ravanelli - a lot of our fans used to overrate him, he was a 'big name' and certainly better than anything we'd had at the time, but it was a time when Serie A was superior and any player joining from there was revered. He had a few caps for Italy, mostly off the bench, and wasn't even Juventus' best striker when we signed him, in and out of their side depending on formation. He was often behind Vialli and Del Piero in the pecking order, for Italy too.

His goalscoring record at the Riverside, in the league, was good, and abysmal elsewhere. And, as noted, he scored a hatful in the cups that put him towards the top of the Ceefax 'top scorer' charts despite being nowhere near the top scorer in the league. He was a great finisher from <12 yards out with his left boot, and occasionally further out, but more often closer in. He was as good with his right as I am with mine. The worst thing about him was arrogance. Its true he was used to playing for a more professional outfit, but his arrogance was very UNprofessional. I cringe when I see him volunteer to be our manager as though we'd be desperate to have him back in any capacity - er no thanks.

Boksic - great player for us but clearly an absolute @r$ehole. Was never great at Juventus or Lazio, but when we were first linked with him any player from those clubs would have got the fans excited. I don't even think he was a shoo-in starter for either club across a whole season. In and out at a time when clubs didn't really have squad rotation. We eventually signed him after his stock (and Serie A's stock) had fallen significantly and although he turned out to be fantastic on occasion (possibly better than he ever was in Italy but not France), he simply didn't play enough. Not much more to say about him.

Viduka - up and down to begin with and then sublime in his last two seasons. Also fantastic for Leeds when they were good and could have been good enough for Ferguson etc. The best striker we've ever had by a country mile (in my lifetime). I never forgave him for going to Newcastle and hated him for a while after. Had he stayed here (or even just gone anywhere but there) and avoided injury he honestly would have been as revered as Juninho and we wouldn't have gone down. He was on his way to being THAT loved by the time his contract expired. Instead, we got Mido and the club has never been the same since.

JFH - absolutely quality throughout his whole time in England, but appeared a little lazy at times for us, he was getting on a bit. He was overall a great signing but probably joined us at the right time and moved on at the right time. Every bit as good as the 3 above across his career.

Yakubu - Consistently inconsistent. Never quite enough for 20 a season but could always bank on him for double figures. Almost like a Premier League version of Britt, but better all round even in relative terms. On his day he was unplayable, but it was never more than once a month and if he was in the mood.

Ricard - confidence player. Terrible to begin with, brilliant for 18 months once we were up, then terrible for his last season or so. Almost laughably bad at times.
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You watched exactly the same players as me atypical- brilliant post.
I think you've been quite kind to Yakubu and a little harsh on Ricard, but overall a great post
 
atypical_boro said:
Fair enough. What would you say was harsh about Yak though? Think the most he scored in the league was 13 for us. Good but not amazing.

I felt as confident about Leadbitter from the spot, lower level though.

Yak was the best player we've ever had in our history at getting the ball in the corner and winning throw-in after throw-in when running the clock down in injury time.
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He didn't start every game so his goals to game is pretty good. He seemed really strong on the ball, never got bullied or intimidated by the best defenders, had a surprising amount of skill and could finish. If only we had someone like him now........
 
JaenBoro said:
He didn't start every game so his goals to game is pretty good. He seemed really strong on the ball, never got bullied or intimidated by the best defenders, had a surprising amount of skill and could finish. If only we had someone like him now........
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Yes agree with all of that. But sometimes he did disappear a bit, quite often in fact. But he played for us at a time when we had our best ever squad, so you can only judge him for what he was at the time. A good PL striker but I don't think he was ever on the radar of Man Utd/Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea etc.
 
atypical_boro said:
Yak was the best player we've ever had in our history at getting the ball in the corner and winning throw-in after throw-in when running the clock down in injury time.
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Yak might look a better player now than he did in the day.

I think he was the first striker we had who actually looked happier playing in a lone role than as part of a pair. That is obviously more in keeping with modern tactics.
 
Frozen Horse said:
Yak might look a better player now than he did in the day.

I think he was the first striker we had who actually looked happier playing in a lone role than as part of a pair. That is obviously more in keeping with modern tactics.
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I remember sometimes McClaren would set us up, even against sides we were expected to beat, in a 451. Yakubu used to drift out to the left a LOT, such that it felt like we had no strikers. I was never sure whether he had a natural tendency to drift out so he could run at full backs and cut inside (like his goal against Chelsea in the 3-0) against orders, or whether he was asked to do it so that players like Rochemback, Mendieta and Downing could get into the box unmarked. I suppose a bit like the 'false 9' philosophy that became so popular afterwards.

I think the UEFA matches sometimes shadow people's memories of McClaren, at times he could be incredibly negative though.
 
Well playing 1 up front was considered fundamentally negative then; I don't think it is now. It's considered normal, and it hasn't led to fewer goals being scored over the years. He was a primarily defensive coach, but his reputation is in part a reflection of the fact he was more open to tactical change than the fans were.


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Frozen Horse said:
Well playing 1 up front was considered fundamentally negative then; I don't think it is now. It's considered normal, and it hasn't led to fewer goals being scored over the years. He was a primarily defensive coach, but his reputation is in part a reflection of the fact he was more open to tactical change than the fans were.


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It is considered normal now but even until as recently as Karanka our fans used to persistently ask for two. I think its accepted that 1 plays upfront now as long as they have wingers either side and/or a number 10.

In that era though we had Morrison/Mendieta and Downing on the wings, with Rocky in the hole, so it wasn't like we had 3/4 forwards on the pitch, it was literally 5 midfielders one striker and even he was never in the box.
 
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