Wilders mackem presser ...

The tv is there for a 30 second sound bite. Often then there is only the Gazette. BBC Tees has a separate earlier interview.
The Gazetre reporter is asking what he wants for his articles.

But SURELLLLLLY the Gazette reporter should be asking probing, relevant, interesting questions to get quality content to make his articles worthy of Boro fans going... that sounds interesting, I'll have a read of that.
 
But SURELLLLLLY the Gazette reporter should be asking probing, relevant, interesting questions to get quality content to make his articles worthy of Boro fans going... that sounds interesting, I'll have a read of that.
Last time they thought for themselves and said what needed to be said they were banned and Tallentire ended up on a post van. Vickers remained loyal and they put him on a salary. Now they’ve put a mackem in charge so the heart will never rule the head and he keeps it nice and positive about everything in return for the odd t*t bit. It’s another way in which Gibson shows his control over his image and can never be questioned. All the excuses for our failures never land at his feet. The financial problems - he’s overseen them all. The bad signings - he’s ratified them all. The managerial disasters - he appointed them all. But it’s never him. The gazette aid him in this.
 
Other clubs face difficult questions. It really does feel as if Tees and the Gazette are under threat of a ban if there is any criticism or in depth analysis. Vickers used to it until Gibson made him confidant.

We just have to live with it. Rob you really are the only independent voice there. Please ask what on earth happened. What is the worst that could happen?
 
I hope he just talks about football and how he's going to coach the errors out of this side.

I'm sorry but 'lack of investment' is nothing to do with throwing away 4 points against Stoke and Watford. It's Mcnair not hammering it clear at Stoke and Muniz shooting from the halfway line in the 93rd min. That's basic errors or bad decisions.

He's got what he's got now until Jan.

So no point going on about transfers and what could have been. He has to get this side winning. It's not just this season. Isn't it 4 wins in 16 or something daft?

He's got better players at his disposal than many champo managers. The majority of teams above us have significantly lower budgets and wage structures. So just get on with it 👍😂
There's no way Muniz is been made the scapegoat for the Watford result?

No way?

Right?

🫣
 
ha
Other clubs face difficult questions. It really does feel as if Tees and the Gazette are under threat of a ban if there is any criticism or in depth analysis. Vickers used to it until Gibson made him confidant.

We just have to live with it. Rob you really are the only independent voice there. Please ask what on earth happened. What is the worst that could happen?
not a chance he will ask.
 
I mean at what point dare someone question sir Steve - over the years he’s invested enough money to smash the league but it seems the strategic decision making at the club is flawed. Other teams with the same resources and opportunities would romp the league.

The most frustrating thing is we always seem to stop short of getting the players we need window after window.
And the point is, it is us the fans who are financing these mistakes through our overpriced tickets
 
Other clubs face difficult questions. It really does feel as if Tees and the Gazette are under threat of a ban if there is any criticism or in depth analysis. Vickers used to it until Gibson made him confidant.

We just have to live with it. Rob you really are the only independent voice there. Please ask what on earth happened. What is the worst that could happen?
He would get banned from all the niceties like getting invited. I don’t blame these people btw, it’s their jobs/perks etc. Rob has to sell fanzines etc. It would be just nice to get a balanced representation- as a large number, maybe half are disgruntled and want our voice heard.
 
Do you think that over priced tickets equate to the £1million a month Gibson puts into the club to keep it financially stable?
He doesn't put it in - he guarantees with cross Group loans the losses his decisions result in. GON (he) last injected £8m in 2016. It is a decade since he put the significant sum of £50m in to covert debt to equity.
The club formally owe Gibson O' Neill well over £130m. Gibson hasn't given the money to Boro, the Group he part owns has lent it.

The reality is that every season in the Championship means the club lose money. Gibson O' Neill either offset that loss with an additional loan, or the Club folds.
I fully understand the reality.
He has provided those guarantees to fund losses, fundamentally made through:
1. High amortisation charges as bad signings since 2017 were written down over contracts through which they couldn't be/weren't sold.
The Club have bought spectacularly badly since 2016.
2. High wage bill to pay those awful signings across their long contracts.
Double whammy of bad transfer business.
3. Reduced revenue through Covid, only partially offset by FL funding and insurance.
4. Low player sale profit as players could not be sold above their book value and no Academy reared players had major value.
5. Parachute Payments ended 2019.
6. Continuing Cat 1 Academy spend which is all FFP allowable, but does cost real money to fund.

He had little choice but to do this, as he IS the club from a financial perspective.
If GON don't extend further loans every year, the Club is declared bust and ceases trading. The Club has seriously negative net shareholder value over £80m. If the Club goes, Gibson loses everything he has ever put into the Club and can't get all his loans out.
His only real way out of this cycle of extended loans and debt is to step change revenue and get the club promoted. It is possible that if he did this he could make the debt appear much more reasonable to a prospective investor. So he could stop the need to fund and eventually possibly even recover money.
But he needs the PL for that.

His alternative would be to minimise his costs, slash the wage bill, be a huge net seller of players and then hope his squad can survive in the lower reaches of the Championship. This was his approach in 2011-2015.
Then came Karanka, some investment, promotion and the revenues he unfortunately went on to waste.

So after years of fire fighting his mistakes of 2016-2020, there was a chink of light.
The decks were being cleared, the expensive rubbish written off and paid off.
Amortisation all but eliminated, Wage bill slashed, Revenue post Covid and amid fan optimism, well up.
Then the windfall; a £12.5m rising to £20m boost to this year's revenue, through profit on the sale of Djed Spence who has no book value. A massive FFP boost for the next 3 years and a huge P&L boost this year.
Then the decision: to sell one of the Academy products Tavernier. Another £10m rising to £12.5m boost to this year's revenue, through profit on another player with no book value.

So costs much more under control, revenues up and a minimum bookable £22.5m profit from player sales THIS season.

I honestly thought - more fool me - that he had got us in a position to build on an average squad and go for promotion.
There were 5 loan places to fill if required. There was this supposed rich array of free transfers we could step in for.
We still had other players that had no book value but good market value to trade, or build on (Jones, Fry, Dijksteel, McNair)
We have a very strong FFP from which to progress.
We had a £22.5m windfall.
We could either invest it, or save it.

So, we have moved out 4 loans from last season end (Siliki, Sporar, Connolly, Balogun).
We've let 3 players go at end of short contracts (Taylor, Peltier and Bamba).
We have released 5 more contracted senior players ( Ameobi, Olusanya, Stejanovic, Wood and Ikpeazu)
And sold 2 for big money (Spence and Tavernier)
We've then loaned out 3 more who will never come back as contracts are up next summer (Lumley, Hall and Coulson)
We've also loaned out 4 more who will return (Payero ?, Coburn, Hemmings and Brynn)
That is a 21 player swing.

There was a big need to recruit and lots of scope to do it.
We have signed 3 on frees (Lenihan, Roberts and Smith). Fine if they were simply cover.
We have signed 4 on loan (Steffen, Giles, Mowatt and Muniz). Steffen and Mowatt are at best meh.
We have bought 3 for £7.75m (Clarke, Forss and Hoppe) Clarke appears decent, but it is crystal clear Wilder doesn't see the other two as anything but cover/development.

Amortisation of those 3 will be £1.75m per season across the length of their contracts, or 7% of the profit from player sales this season.

It is a fundamentally underwhelming window. To disagree is to swallow the Gibson propaganda machine.
We have a small 22 man squad, this from the Club's own website.
3 Keepers (Roberts, Daniels and Steffen)
5 CB's (Lenihan,Clarke,Fry, Dijksteel and McNair)
4 WB/LB (Giles, Jones, Bola, Smith)
1 DM (Howson)
4 AM (Crooks, McGree, Mowatt, Boyd Munce)
5 ST (Muniz, Watmore, Akpom, Forss and Hoppe)
Within that the manager clearly doesn't fancy some of those who have been signed and we are expected to believe Akpom is Lazarus.

If not for the signing of the brilliant Giles and exciting Muniz, it would be a horrendous window.

Middlesbrough will make a huge trading profit this season. Gibson is entitled to save it, or repay loans to Gibson O'Neill with it. But one things is clear he has shown no intention to invest it, and therefore has absolutely no chance of promotion and thus ending the need for GON to shore up the inevitable future losses.
He screwed up his big opportunity in 2016. I am stunned he has done the same with his next in 2022.
He deserves what he gets. I say that for the jaw droppingly bad decisions he repeatedly makes.
Sadly we will remain stuck with each other as a result. We have no alternative.
 
He doesn't put it in - he guarantees with cross Group loans the losses his decisions result in. GON (he) last injected £8m in 2016. It is a decade since he put the significant sum of £50m in to covert debt to equity.
The club formally owe Gibson O' Neill well over £130m. Gibson hasn't given the money to Boro, the Group he part owns has lent it.

The reality is that every season in the Championship means the club lose money. Gibson O' Neill either offset that loss with an additional loan, or the Club folds.
I fully understand the reality.
He has provided those guarantees to fund losses, fundamentally made through:
1. High amortisation charges as bad signings since 2017 were written down over contracts through which they couldn't be/weren't sold.
The Club have bought spectacularly badly since 2016.
2. High wage bill to pay those awful signings across their long contracts.
Double whammy of bad transfer business.
3. Reduced revenue through Covid, only partially offset by FL funding and insurance.
4. Low player sale profit as players could not be sold above their book value and no Academy reared players had major value.
5. Parachute Payments ended 2019.
6. Continuing Cat 1 Academy spend which is all FFP allowable, but does cost real money to fund.

He had little choice but to do this, as he IS the club from a financial perspective.
If GON don't extend further loans every year, the Club is declared bust and ceases trading. The Club has seriously negative net shareholder value over £80m. If the Club goes, Gibson loses everything he has ever put into the Club and can't get all his loans out.
His only real way out of this cycle of extended loans and debt is to step change revenue and get the club promoted. It is possible that if he did this he could make the debt appear much more reasonable to a prospective investor. So he could stop the need to fund and eventually possibly even recover money.
But he needs the PL for that.

His alternative would be to minimise his costs, slash the wage bill, be a huge net seller of players and then hope his squad can survive in the lower reaches of the Championship. This was his approach in 2011-2015.
Then came Karanka, some investment, promotion and the revenues he unfortunately went on to waste.

So after years of fire fighting his mistakes of 2016-2020, there was a chink of light.
The decks were being cleared, the expensive rubbish written off and paid off.
Amortisation all but eliminated, Wage bill slashed, Revenue post Covid and amid fan optimism, well up.
Then the windfall; a £12.5m rising to £20m boost to this year's revenue, through profit on the sale of Djed Spence who has no book value. A massive FFP boost for the next 3 years and a huge P&L boost this year.
Then the decision: to sell one of the Academy products Tavernier. Another £10m rising to £12.5m boost to this year's revenue, through profit on another player with no book value.

So costs much more under control, revenues up and a minimum bookable £22.5m profit from player sales THIS season.

I honestly thought - more fool me - that he had got us in a position to build on an average squad and go for promotion.
There were 5 loan places to fill if required. There was this supposed rich array of free transfers we could step in for.
We still had other players that had no book value but good market value to trade, or build on (Jones, Fry, Dijksteel, McNair)
We have a very strong FFP from which to progress.
We had a £22.5m windfall.
We could either invest it, or save it.

So, we have moved out 4 loans from last season end (Siliki, Sporar, Connolly, Balogun).
We've let 3 players go at end of short contracts (Taylor, Peltier and Bamba).
We have released 5 more contracted senior players ( Ameobi, Olusanya, Stejanovic, Wood and Ikpeazu)
And sold 2 for big money (Spence and Tavernier)
We've then loaned out 3 more who will never come back as contracts are up next summer (Lumley, Hall and Coulson)
We've also loaned out 4 more who will return (Payero ?, Coburn, Hemmings and Brynn)
That is a 21 player swing.

There was a big need to recruit and lots of scope to do it.
We have signed 3 on frees (Lenihan, Roberts and Smith). Fine if they were simply cover.
We have signed 4 on loan (Steffen, Giles, Mowatt and Muniz). Steffen and Mowatt are at best meh.
We have bought 3 for £7.75m (Clarke, Forss and Hoppe) Clarke appears decent, but it is crystal clear Wilder doesn't see the other two as anything but cover/development.

Amortisation of those 3 will be £1.75m per season across the length of their contracts, or 7% of the profit from player sales this season.

It is a fundamentally underwhelming window. To disagree is to swallow the Gibson propaganda machine.
We have a small 22 man squad, this from the Club's own website.
3 Keepers (Roberts, Daniels and Steffen)
5 CB's (Lenihan,Clarke,Fry, Dijksteel and McNair)
4 WB/LB (Giles, Jones, Bola, Smith)
1 DM (Howson)
4 AM (Crooks, McGree, Mowatt, Boyd Munce)
5 ST (Muniz, Watmore, Akpom, Forss and Hoppe)
Within that the manager clearly doesn't fancy some of those who have been signed and we are expected to believe Akpom is Lazarus.

If not for the signing of the brilliant Giles and exciting Muniz, it would be a horrendous window.

Middlesbrough will make a huge trading profit this season. Gibson is entitled to save it, or repay loans to Gibson O'Neill with it. But one things is clear he has shown no intention to invest it, and therefore has absolutely no chance of promotion and thus ending the need for GON to shore up the inevitable future losses.
He screwed up his big opportunity in 2016. I am stunned he has done the same with his next in 2022.
He deserves what he gets. I say that for the jaw droppingly bad decisions he repeatedly makes.
Sadly we will remain stuck with each other as a result. We have no alternative.
You clearly understand the complexities of football accounts more than I possibly could but at the end of the day whether he gives it or lends it he puts the money to enable the club to function. If he just stopped where would we be?

I'm no Gibson apologist, I'll happily admit he's made mistakes over the years but he's also got a lot of things right surely?
 
Let’s all support Sunderland, they’re a big club, gotta big ground, play in red and white and TM as manager. SG could pack up
On second thoughts, reckon I’ll stick with Boro, can’t help it
Leo Leo
Cmon Boro
 
He doesn't put it in - he guarantees with cross Group loans the losses his decisions result in. GON (he) last injected £8m in 2016. It is a decade since he put the significant sum of £50m in to covert debt to equity.
The club formally owe Gibson O' Neill well over £130m. Gibson hasn't given the money to Boro, the Group he part owns has lent it.

The reality is that every season in the Championship means the club lose money. Gibson O' Neill either offset that loss with an additional loan, or the Club folds.
I fully understand the reality.
He has provided those guarantees to fund losses, fundamentally made through:
1. High amortisation charges as bad signings since 2017 were written down over contracts through which they couldn't be/weren't sold.
The Club have bought spectacularly badly since 2016.
2. High wage bill to pay those awful signings across their long contracts.
Double whammy of bad transfer business.
3. Reduced revenue through Covid, only partially offset by FL funding and insurance.
4. Low player sale profit as players could not be sold above their book value and no Academy reared players had major value.
5. Parachute Payments ended 2019.
6. Continuing Cat 1 Academy spend which is all FFP allowable, but does cost real money to fund.

He had little choice but to do this, as he IS the club from a financial perspective.
If GON don't extend further loans every year, the Club is declared bust and ceases trading. The Club has seriously negative net shareholder value over £80m. If the Club goes, Gibson loses everything he has ever put into the Club and can't get all his loans out.
His only real way out of this cycle of extended loans and debt is to step change revenue and get the club promoted. It is possible that if he did this he could make the debt appear much more reasonable to a prospective investor. So he could stop the need to fund and eventually possibly even recover money.
But he needs the PL for that.

His alternative would be to minimise his costs, slash the wage bill, be a huge net seller of players and then hope his squad can survive in the lower reaches of the Championship. This was his approach in 2011-2015.
Then came Karanka, some investment, promotion and the revenues he unfortunately went on to waste.

So after years of fire fighting his mistakes of 2016-2020, there was a chink of light.
The decks were being cleared, the expensive rubbish written off and paid off.
Amortisation all but eliminated, Wage bill slashed, Revenue post Covid and amid fan optimism, well up.
Then the windfall; a £12.5m rising to £20m boost to this year's revenue, through profit on the sale of Djed Spence who has no book value. A massive FFP boost for the next 3 years and a huge P&L boost this year.
Then the decision: to sell one of the Academy products Tavernier. Another £10m rising to £12.5m boost to this year's revenue, through profit on another player with no book value.

So costs much more under control, revenues up and a minimum bookable £22.5m profit from player sales THIS season.

I honestly thought - more fool me - that he had got us in a position to build on an average squad and go for promotion.
There were 5 loan places to fill if required. There was this supposed rich array of free transfers we could step in for.
We still had other players that had no book value but good market value to trade, or build on (Jones, Fry, Dijksteel, McNair)
We have a very strong FFP from which to progress.
We had a £22.5m windfall.
We could either invest it, or save it.

So, we have moved out 4 loans from last season end (Siliki, Sporar, Connolly, Balogun).
We've let 3 players go at end of short contracts (Taylor, Peltier and Bamba).
We have released 5 more contracted senior players ( Ameobi, Olusanya, Stejanovic, Wood and Ikpeazu)
And sold 2 for big money (Spence and Tavernier)
We've then loaned out 3 more who will never come back as contracts are up next summer (Lumley, Hall and Coulson)
We've also loaned out 4 more who will return (Payero ?, Coburn, Hemmings and Brynn)
That is a 21 player swing.

There was a big need to recruit and lots of scope to do it.
We have signed 3 on frees (Lenihan, Roberts and Smith). Fine if they were simply cover.
We have signed 4 on loan (Steffen, Giles, Mowatt and Muniz). Steffen and Mowatt are at best meh.
We have bought 3 for £7.75m (Clarke, Forss and Hoppe) Clarke appears decent, but it is crystal clear Wilder doesn't see the other two as anything but cover/development.

Amortisation of those 3 will be £1.75m per season across the length of their contracts, or 7% of the profit from player sales this season.

It is a fundamentally underwhelming window. To disagree is to swallow the Gibson propaganda machine.
We have a small 22 man squad, this from the Club's own website.
3 Keepers (Roberts, Daniels and Steffen)
5 CB's (Lenihan,Clarke,Fry, Dijksteel and McNair)
4 WB/LB (Giles, Jones, Bola, Smith)
1 DM (Howson

If not for the signing of the brilliant Giles and exciting Muniz, it would be a horrendous window.

Middlesbrough will make a huge trading profit this season. Gibson is entitled to save it, or repay loans to Gibson O'Neill with it. But one things is clear he has shown no intention to invest it, and therefore has absolutely no chance of promotion and thus ending the need for GON to shore up the inevitable future losses.
He screwed up his big opportunity in 2016. I am stunned he has done the same with his next in 2022.
He deserves what he gets. I say that for the jaw droppingly bad decisions he repeatedly makes.
Sadly we will remain stuck with each other as a result. We have no alternative.


If not for the signing of the brilliant Giles and exciting Muniz, it would be a horrendous window.

Completely agree


What's most frustrating is it's not even about the money it's about the selection of signings if we were signing Clarke then we didn't need the overated lenihan if we were signing Forse we didn't need hoppe the money could and should have been diverted to improving our sluggish midfield. I get the impression we are still working on a two tier recruitment strategy what the manager wants and a separate list from Kieran Scott. It's an absolute farce signing so many centrebacks and strikers and only 1 sub standard midfielder
 
You clearly understand the complexities of football accounts more than I possibly could but at the end of the day whether he gives it or lends it he puts the money to enable the club to function. If he just stopped where would we be?

I'm no Gibson apologist, I'll happily admit he's made mistakes over the years but he's also got a lot of things right surely?
I genuinely can't think of many things Gibson has actually got right since appointing Steve McLaren.

1993-2006 he was a bold visionary who transformed a middling club with a massive inferiority complex hovering above the third tier into an established club in the richest league in the world. One of the people admire most in my life, especially as he was not a wealthy man at the time he was being boldest and most successful.

2007-2011 he got nothing right at all.
Hired Southgate, hired Strachan, wasted PP's.

2012-2013 he paid for the previous 5 years and current couple. Injected £56m in two lumps, converting debt to equity. Saved the club from the consequences of the losses incurred since 2007 and through the Financial Crisis. He had no choice other than to try and sell the club. Hired Mowbray who saved the club from the drop before coming perilously close to dropping himself. Retained far far too long.

2014-16 made his best decision since 2006, listened to a football pro Kenyon and hired Karanka. Unquestionably backed his manager and was thankfully rewarded with promotion and his opportunity.

2017-2020 a series of horrendous decisions around under-investment and not backing his manager, before sacking him, appointing a totally unqualified interim, inevitable relegation.
Then hired an idiot and allowed him to spend over £50m on what we didn't need, not signing what we did and then sacking Monk once he realised he had hired a crook and a useless one at that.
Then hired an even bigger crook who sold our silver and bought plastic and wasted the parachute payments going nowhere and leaving us with a massive wage bill on players with no resale value.
Then hired a buffoon to manage a squad so poor it was on it's way to the third tier. Woodgate had no chance.
Then hired Warnock who saved his bacon during Covid, before again sticking around past his sell by date for a job done.
The decks are finally cleared.

2021 hires Wilder, an ambitious manager and a shiny new swaggering DoF and there is talk again of promotion, great recruitment and that long last ambition from Gibson. The crowd get on board, season tickets are sold.
Then the 2022 window brings in tens of millions, commits little and leaves a manager hostage to a squad that is blatantly incomplete.

Mowbray and Warnock saved him but stayed too long. Karanka gave him the big opportunity but he blew it.
He obviously hasn't the ambition, vision or balls he once had judging by this summer.
 
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