SNEEKERS
Well-known member
Clearly being chased, about 2 second gap to be more accurate.
Ely crash deaths
- Thread starter Yarmblue
- Start date
SNEEKERS
Well-known member
Not an excuse but a cause undoubtedly...lack of resource leads to poor policing and poor practice, poor community relations, distrust and dislike on both sides. which leads to conflict,cover up and denial.
Just trying to point out the bigger picture for anyone who thinks we live in a Tory paradise.
Just trying to point out the bigger picture for anyone who thinks we live in a Tory paradise.
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BobUpnDown
Well-known member
Tragic though wholly avoidable accident
the lads crashed - no other vehicle was involved - they were not wearing helmets & e-bikes can get up to about 20mph
two were on the one bike, makes it very unstable..
police van was following, a short time earlier - though, according to the info we have now - to have stopped following them & was 500m away in a different street at the time of the incident.. [ not chased: no lights, no sirens ]
communications do seem to have been less than ideal after the incident, including getting info to the relatives of the two boys..
Rioting, fuelled by incorrect statements on social media I have little doubt, is always destructive to the local community themselves..
the lads crashed - no other vehicle was involved - they were not wearing helmets & e-bikes can get up to about 20mph
two were on the one bike, makes it very unstable..
police van was following, a short time earlier - though, according to the info we have now - to have stopped following them & was 500m away in a different street at the time of the incident.. [ not chased: no lights, no sirens ]
communications do seem to have been less than ideal after the incident, including getting info to the relatives of the two boys..
Rioting, fuelled by incorrect statements on social media I have little doubt, is always destructive to the local community themselves..
TeaCider
Well-known member
There's the "chase".
It's a sizeable gap, and the police van certainly isn't at high speed.
If it's anything like the young lads constantly bombing around Redcar on dirt bikes with balaclavas on, it will have been a regular occurance and they've just gotten unlucky this time.
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Ingleby_Flash
Well-known member
Tragically there was another vehicle involved. And the bus driver will be scarred for life as a result. A tragedy all round, but not a police chase.
clay
Well-known member
Similar thing happened in Liverpool a couple of years ago. The rider went through the window of a family car, and died right on top of a couple of young children. Don't know how they'd ever get over something like that.
chickenrunner
Well-known member
My understanding is that it was a single vehicle accident. Cardiff bus company have stated that their vehicle was not involved and simply stopped at the scene.
Boro_Interlinked
Well-known member
The footage that shows the police van closest behind the bike is from the earliest point of the incident. The lads were heading round a bend towards the East and the police van presumably on another call was heading West. The lads turnaround right in front of the van and speed back. Of course the police van is gonna follow seeing as they going that way anyway.
Later at the incident it seems an early police cordon was established and even family were not allowed in. Most likely as the paramedics had all the full resources out and were working on the situation and it was very unclear. This goes on for 2 hours where the parameds are still trying to bring about a better outcome, and obv the police are in the middle not being able to tell the families at the cordon any real updates becuase they are asking for the latest updates but police cant say anything has changed - So tensions got hightenned. It all kicked off because someone ran into the crowd at this point and had footage of the earliest part of the incident and declared to the crowd that the police were chasing them and the vid went round the crowd. Shortly afterwards the lads were declared deceased by the medics.
So that person that ran into the crowd without knowing the context of what they were showing , basically kicked it off
This comes from the words of one of the relatives that was there at the cordon
Later at the incident it seems an early police cordon was established and even family were not allowed in. Most likely as the paramedics had all the full resources out and were working on the situation and it was very unclear. This goes on for 2 hours where the parameds are still trying to bring about a better outcome, and obv the police are in the middle not being able to tell the families at the cordon any real updates becuase they are asking for the latest updates but police cant say anything has changed - So tensions got hightenned. It all kicked off because someone ran into the crowd at this point and had footage of the earliest part of the incident and declared to the crowd that the police were chasing them and the vid went round the crowd. Shortly afterwards the lads were declared deceased by the medics.
So that person that ran into the crowd without knowing the context of what they were showing , basically kicked it off
This comes from the words of one of the relatives that was there at the cordon
Glover_elbow
Well-known member
Any kid caught one of these with either no helmet or wearing a balaclava should have their bike crushed
The problem we have is that kids don’t give a toss what they do nowadays ,they think they are above the law .
When I was in my teens I was motorcycle mad ,had loads of off-road bikes (was under 16 ) ,however we always made sure we had helmets ,gloves and boots and always rode off road ,the police would leave us alone as long as we had said gear on and kept off the roads and rode out the way of residential areas .
We showed respect ,didn’t take the pee and they gave us the same in return .
I know we live in a different world now ,but as I said at the top ,Kids do not care what they do ,or think of the consequences ,a lot of it is caused by parents allowing them to do as they like .
When I was in my teens I was motorcycle mad ,had loads of off-road bikes (was under 16 ) ,however we always made sure we had helmets ,gloves and boots and always rode off road ,the police would leave us alone as long as we had said gear on and kept off the roads and rode out the way of residential areas .
We showed respect ,didn’t take the pee and they gave us the same in return .
I know we live in a different world now ,but as I said at the top ,Kids do not care what they do ,or think of the consequences ,a lot of it is caused by parents allowing them to do as they like .
To lie is to effectively deceive deliberately, you appear to know the facts before there appears to have been any certain definitive conclusion. How do you know the police have clearly lied?
I can imagine that there was a lot of confusion in the initial hours after the incident. The police will be well aware of all the CCTV in the area and for them to lie will be very foolish when clearly any lies would be quickly exposed.
I will judge the police actions as and when the facts are known.
How much do you know about the local community and who they trust or are you equating the opportunist who caused the disorder as representing the”community”?
I’m genuinely interested what do you know about the local police accountability, resourcing and governance?
The police are damned if they do and damned if they don’t in situations like this. I feel really sorry for the boy’s family and friends and all those who have been affected by what is a horrible tragedy.
SNEEKERS
Well-known member
I was asked by the poster for an opinion.......
They initially said they were nowhere near. Their timelines have been challenged and shown to be incorrect.
The recording I posted shows them 2 seconds behind them I would guess travelling at speed.
South Wales Police(and nationally) have a history of doing things behind "closed doors" so will be interesting to see how it pans out.
1500 people came to the vigil, which demonstrates were the communities loyalty lies.
People interviewed have said the Police locally did nothing but give kids a hard time.
Clearly antisocial behaviour is a pain in the **** but as adults(and the Police) we should show restraint and give a measured response.
As I originally said driving a 2 tonne Van after a bike is neither
Ingleby_Flash
Well-known member
Turns out social media has even more to answer for then.
Acklam_Lad
Well-known member
You’re either on a wind up or an absolute clown.
How would you like the police to respond? On foot? On a pushbike? How about a nice little trike with a bell?
They were breaking the law…. The police have a duty to stop them…. It’s not their fault the scrotes crashed
No you said the police clearly lied in their account I don’t think that is clear at all. What they said may not have been correct but we will wait and see.
So 1500 people turning up to a vigil for the death of a two teenagers equates to the police not having the support of the community in your book that’s quite an extrapolation!
So what is the measured response that should have been applied to prevent the tragedy?
dooderooni
Well-known member
You only have to look to the issues we experience round here from off-road bikes, e-bikes and e-scooters being ridden by balaclava clad youths with no regard to the law.
I'm surprised there aren't more fatalities to be honest, given a lot of it takes place during the hours of darkness.
The police are by no means paragons of virtue, but historic underfunding has led to this situation where they are struggling to cope with policing most antisocial behaviour. Because certain people are getting away with things then the envelope of stuff that faces no consequence gets wider.
I'm surprised there aren't more fatalities to be honest, given a lot of it takes place during the hours of darkness.
The police are by no means paragons of virtue, but historic underfunding has led to this situation where they are struggling to cope with policing most antisocial behaviour. Because certain people are getting away with things then the envelope of stuff that faces no consequence gets wider.
RedAsABeetroot
Well-known member
Not at the time of the accident though
SNEEKERS
Well-known member
Neither, I am trying to formulate an option without using personal insults. Basic principle of policing is that of reasonable force.The nature of the crime, and risk and the likelihood of causing harm to an individual. Their crime seems to be wazzing around on a bike.
Using a van to chase a bike is in my opinion excessive.
I think they know this hence why I think they are attempting to cover up.
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