Red Faction disgraceful today

This is what that cloud of smoke could contain.. I would suggest not the sort of stuff you really want to be breathing in,,

HIGHER TOXICITY
• Sulphur Dioxide;
• Nitrogen Oxides;
• Carbon Dioxide;
• Carbon Monoxide;
• Barium Carbonate;
• Barium Sulphate;
• Potassium Sulphide;
• Lead Salts;
• Potassium Oxide;

MEDIUM

• Potassium Carbonate;
• Magnesium Oxide;
• Copper salts;
• Antimony salts;

LOWER TOXICITY

• Potassium Sulphate;
• Nitrogen;
• Potassium Chloride;
• Barium Oxide;
• Aluminium Oxide;
• Carbon;
• Bismuth salts;
• Strontium salts;
• Sodium salts;
• Calcium salts;
• Iron salts.
 
r00fie1 said:
RF are................."a bunch of d***heads these days, there are more and more of the hooligan element creeping in, mainly young lads."

I hope you have identified this "hooligan element" and reported them to the Club?


As a matter of fact the two I was chatting with on Saturday [before the match] are getting older by the day and the "core" are almost identical to what they were 15 years ago.

Who are these "mainly young lads"? Do you know them or what they look like? Do they sing and wear Boro shirts, shout on the team and encourage the West Stand and South West Corner to "sit down if you love Boro"? Almost the whole of blocks 64/63/62/61.60/59/58. Red Faction must be flippin huge!

Go find them around the fans bar before the game and talk to them - they dont bite and you might be able to add to the collection for the next display (y)

If you cant make that, look out for the next charity raffle held outside the South Stand and meet the "hooligan element" selling raffle tickets.
I`l post it in the date nearest Match Day Thread.
Click to expand...
Oh well, if they do a lot of work for charity......
 
fmttmadmin said:
This is what that cloud of smoke could contain.. I would suggest not the sort of stuff you really want to be breathing in,,

HIGHER TOXICITY
• Sulphur Dioxide;
• Nitrogen Oxides;
• Carbon Dioxide;
• Carbon Monoxide;
• Barium Carbonate;
• Barium Sulphate;
• Potassium Sulphide;
• Lead Salts;
• Potassium Oxide;

MEDIUM

• Potassium Carbonate;
• Magnesium Oxide;
• Copper salts;
• Antimony salts;

LOWER TOXICITY

• Potassium Sulphate;
• Nitrogen;
• Potassium Chloride;
• Barium Oxide;
• Aluminium Oxide;
• Carbon;
• Bismuth salts;
• Strontium salts;
• Sodium salts;
• Calcium salts;
• Iron salts.
Click to expand...
This is the thing most people seem unwilling to acknowledge. The flame itself is relatively safe if handled responsibly. Everyone seems to focus on the potential for immediate injury and ignores the obvious issue of uncontrollable exposure to toxic gases and particulates which irritate the eyes and lungs at the time but could lead to serious issues later in life.
 
I know the Bradford City fire started for totally different reasons, and the Riverside Stadium couldn't go up in flames so easily. But as a rule of thumb across the UK, bearing in mind there are still lots of old stadia whose risks may not be fully known (nobody knew the risk at Bradford until it actually happened), the very fact that that ever happened should be reason enough for people to understand that fires (however small and controlled) are not welcome in sports grounds managed by spectators.

1698679998819.png
 
Humpty said:
I'd argue that alcohol in the ground has far more of an anti-social impact than that of a flare. You obviously feel very strongly about it, but as i said before i enjoy a flare at the ground when used responsibly, same as a drink.

I don't think anyone in this country has died when a flare has been used responsibly have they?
Click to expand...
Flares can definitely look impressive and help add to the atmosphere, particularly pre-match.
But it is hard to deny that they are dangerous, especially in a crowd.
You can't really blame the club for not allowing people to use them.

In fact, isn't it actually the law as opposed to just an MFC rule?

If they could be used safely and responsibly then that would be great. But you only have to look at the controls in place at fireworks displays to realise it wouldn't be practical.
 
SilentProf said:
This is the thing most people seem unwilling to acknowledge. The flame itself is relatively safe if handled responsibly. Everyone seems to focus on the potential for immediate injury and ignores the obvious issue of uncontrollable exposure to toxic gases and particulates which irritate the eyes and lungs at the time but could lead to serious issues later in life.
Click to expand...
Thing is though, it's all of it. You cannot safely use a pyrotechnic in a crowded space. You can't, even if you have the best and safest of intentions. There are way too many variables and anyone that thinks they have the right to expose someone else to that risk at their own whim is completely reckless, is a danger to themselves and others.
 
JonnyHistory said:
Just because this time it wasn't thrown, if we just turn a blind eye until it happens then the end result could be horrific for some unlucky Boro fan.

I have been in stands with my son when they are lit. My son has autism and already has to endure sensory overload to watch the sports he loves, when the flare was off he was distressed and coughing as were others around us. They may look pretty but guaranteeing their safe use is impossible to police.

Take the emotion out of this look at the facts and try and make a sane case for having them? I don't see how that is possible.
Click to expand...
I can understand why it's a subject close to home. I'd probably climb down my position of their use in a crowd by the crowd. I'd look at having them used by designated users in positions directly away from a dense crowd. On the pitch or at the front of the stand for example.
 
m3t4tr0n said:
Thing is though, it's all of it. You cannot safely use a pyrotechnic in a crowded space. You can't, even if you have the best and safest of intentions. There are way too many variables and anyone that thinks they have the right to expose someone else to that risk at their own whim is completely reckless, is a danger to themselves and others.
Click to expand...
To use such pyrotechnics in a professional capacity, you can't just go and get one and start waving it about wherever you like. In every case there will be various controls in place, including permits, exclusion zone, fire fighting equipment, PPE etc. To use one in an uncontrolled and crowded environment is nothing other than reckless and dangerous, and the punishments should be adequate. The club will get in trouble for this, most likely a fine, but hopefully this will be the straw that broke the camel's back and will be the last we see of such idiotic behaviour.
 
Philly-Red said:
Nothing like deleting a key part of the post to remove context…. 🙄
Click to expand...
Really?

I quoted the sentence I wished to contest.
I quoted his smears, insults and inaccurate characturing of Red Faction.
That doesnt take his comment out of context. [*See the link I have created for you down below. You might learn something]

This is what was posted by veggieburger:

Sorry but a large part of RF are a bunch of d***heads these days, there are more and more of the hooligan element creeping in, mainly young lads.

It doesn't matter how much they do for the atmosphere at the ground, the rules apply to them just as much as they do to everyone else.


The sentence is in quotes.

His statement smears, makes insulting and totally inacurate comments about alleged behaviour`s and unsubstatiated claims about groups of "young lads" "d***heads" and "hooligan element".

If you want to make a valid statement, you need to justify it, not begin with insults and stereotypes.


Try this to get an understanding of journalism and particularly how you use "context" [which you mention].

Get yourself on an on-line course or Open University - or even find a writing course on Reed:

Here you are pal - some professional online courses in "Journalism Essentials" / "Journalism Skills for Beginners", etc. From as little as £12.
www.reed.co.uk

Journalism Courses & Qualifications | reed.co.uk

Browse professional Journalism courses and improve your career prospects with reed.co.uk, the UK’s #1 job site.
www.reed.co.uk www.reed.co.uk

(y)
 
m3t4tr0n said:
Thing is though, it's all of it. You cannot safely use a pyrotechnic in a crowded space. You can't, even if you have the best and safest of intentions. There are way too many variables and anyone that thinks they have the right to expose someone else to that risk at their own whim is completely reckless, is a danger to themselves and others.
Click to expand...
Responsibly was the wrong word to use I admit. My point was that the flame is a potential risk whereas the smoke is actual harm being done every time to many more people.
 
I rarely post on matters such as this; I prefer reading the views of others and keeping my own counsel.

However, for what it’s worth, I had to handle a flare (legally) when I was doing a RYA Dayskipper course. The tutor had to get permission from the Tees Pilot for us to let them off at the South Gare. I handled one which you threw into the water once it was activated. It was extremely hot and I hoped that I’d never have to do that ever again. It burned red smoke in a similar way to the one on Saturday for about three minutes. The brightness was such that we all had to shield our eyes and the smoke was so noxious we all covered our mouths.

I was reminded of that smell again on Saturday and again covered my mouth; I sit in the North West corner.
 
THE PYRO DEBATE

How football in Norway has pioneered safe pyrotechnic areas in grounds27th January​

16396180.jpg

Fans set off flares in the stand at a Norway game (Image: Getty Images)


THE football matches which are played across Norway this weekend will, like so many games in Europe, see a number of the fans in attendance set off flares and smoke bombs in an attempt to enhance the atmosphere.
Unlike in other countries across the continent, though, there will be no frantic attempts made by the police or security staff present inside the ground to apprehend those responsible and extinguish the devices.

Denmark: First tifo using 'cold' pyrotechnics​

Usually when flares set the south stand alight in Brøndby, it means fines for the club. But not this time, despite supporters having lit hundreds of flares. Why? These were the safe, legal pyrotechnics created here in Brøndby.

The Sunday game between Brøndby and Midtjylland will not go in history as the best by local team. But it was historic for a different reason: a few hundred flares were lit a Sydsiden (south side), marking the first official tifo created with innovative and fully legal pyrotechnics that Brøndby and its fans have been working on for the last few years.

1698682377377.png

While there's still some work to be done in terms of the visual effect, everyone seems to be happy with the outcome so far. Hundreds of flares in Brøndby's yellow and blue were lit fully legally. Though fans didn't need approval from anyone (due to low temperature of burning these are legal), they approached all emergency services beforehand and got the green light for their display.

With burning temperature over 1,000 degrees lower than with regular flares, these are safe to run one's hand through without risk of injury. The emission of sparks and smoke was also minimised compared to regular pyrotechnics. The price? Amount of light is also far smaller than with regular, banned flares.

Clearly, these aren't the same as what ultras around the world enjoy but the cold flares from Brøndby have their benefits. For example, fans were able to create a quite precise message (the club's establishment date, 1964) with their flares, which would hardly be possible with conventional flares.


I said there were other alternatives worth looking into.. but folks weren't having any of it.. I said there would be more pyro and no matter what the punishments actions and incidents like this will keep on happening.
 
r00fie1 said:
Really?

I quoted the sentence I wished to contest.
I quoted his smears, insults and inaccurate characturing of Red Faction.
That doesnt take his comment out of context. [*See the link I have created for you down below. You might learn something]

This is what was posted by veggieburger:

Sorry but a large part of RF are a bunch of d***heads these days, there are more and more of the hooligan element creeping in, mainly young lads.

It doesn't matter how much they do for the atmosphere at the ground, the rules apply to them just as much as they do to everyone else.


The sentence is in quotes.

His statement smears, makes insulting and totally inacurate comments about alleged behaviour`s and unsubstatiated claims about groups of "young lads" "d***heads" and "hooligan element".

If you want to make a valid statement, you need to justify it, not begin with insults and stereotypes.


Try this to get an understanding of journalism and particularly how you use "context" [which you mention].

Get yourself on an on-line course or Open University - or even find a writing course on Reed:

Here you are pal - some professional online courses in "Journalism Essentials" / "Journalism Skills for Beginners", etc. From as little as £12.
www.reed.co.uk

Journalism Courses & Qualifications | reed.co.uk

Browse professional Journalism courses and improve your career prospects with reed.co.uk, the UK’s #1 job site.
www.reed.co.uk www.reed.co.uk

(y)
Click to expand...
Does that course include tuition on spelling, grammar and the correct use of punctuation marks and symbols?

Asking for a friend 👀

And does it also discuss the importance of consistency and focus when writing an opinion piece?
 
newyddion said:
Rofesleg said:
Could be the way forward - even if it does look like a Coldplay concert 🙂
Click to expand...

THE PYRO DEBATE

How football in Norway has pioneered safe pyrotechnic areas in grounds27th January​

16396180.jpg

Fans set off flares in the stand at a Norway game (Image: Getty Images)


THE football matches which are played across Norway this weekend will, like so many games in Europe, see a number of the fans in attendance set off flares and smoke bombs in an attempt to enhance the atmosphere.
Unlike in other countries across the continent, though, there will be no frantic attempts made by the police or security staff present inside the ground to apprehend those responsible and extinguish the devices.

Denmark: First tifo using 'cold' pyrotechnics​

Usually when flares set the south stand alight in Brøndby, it means fines for the club. But not this time, despite supporters having lit hundreds of flares. Why? These were the safe, legal pyrotechnics created here in Brøndby.

The Sunday game between Brøndby and Midtjylland will not go in history as the best by local team. But it was historic for a different reason: a few hundred flares were lit a Sydsiden (south side), marking the first official tifo created with innovative and fully legal pyrotechnics that Brøndby and its fans have been working on for the last few years.

View attachment 66096

While there's still some work to be done in terms of the visual effect, everyone seems to be happy with the outcome so far. Hundreds of flares in Brøndby's yellow and blue were lit fully legally. Though fans didn't need approval from anyone (due to low temperature of burning these are legal), they approached all emergency services beforehand and got the green light for their display.

With burning temperature over 1,000 degrees lower than with regular flares, these are safe to run one's hand through without risk of injury. The emission of sparks and smoke was also minimised compared to regular pyrotechnics. The price? Amount of light is also far smaller than with regular, banned flares.

Clearly, these aren't the same as what ultras around the world enjoy but the cold flares from Brøndby have their benefits. For example, fans were able to create a quite precise message (the club's establishment date, 1964) with their flares, which would hardly be possible with conventional flares.


I said there were other alternatives worth looking into.. but folks weren't having any of it.. I said there would be more pyro and no matter what the punishments actions and incidents like this will keep on happening.
Click to expand...
I would suggest you look up just how "cold" these "fire" works actually are
 
newyddion said:
I said there were other alternatives worth looking into.. but folks weren't having any of it.. I said there would be more pyro and no matter what the punishments actions and incidents like this will keep on happening.
Click to expand...
mate as soon as something is legal to do, they'll lose interest, the 'thrill' is in the edgyness of doing something you are not allowed to do.....and of course allowing these wouldn't automatically create a barrier to the more dangerous pyros. They could still bring them in, but now it's difficult to identify if it's a legal or illegal pyro coming into the ground.
 
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